Will the NHS recover? What happens if not?

[ilovemykids1]

As somebody with extreme health anxiety, seeing the collapse of the NHS is horrible and I get so scared of what's going to happen.

Do you think it can ever recover? How many years would this take? And if not, what would happen instead!?

Can I get private insurance for pre existing health issues/symptoms? What will happen to people on benefits?

Second this

Typically no unless it’s a company policy.

We need a European-style insurance system, e.g. Germany, NOT the US system

Good post.

I would rather pay significantly more tax to maintain hassle free access to healthcare for all, and maybe with a charge to visit the GP, than give the money to private healthcare insurance providers.

Most kinds of insurance are a con. Exclusions in the small print, ever escalating premiums, just no.

People go on about the NHS like it is the most expensive healthcare system but we don't even put in as much as many other european countries do to their healthcare systems. We also have less beds than we used to despite a growing population and we have less beds than many other European countries for example the UK has 2.4 beds per 1000 people while Germany has 7.8 beds. The truth is our healthcare system is underfunded and its been done on purpose with a view to privatisation for decades. They want you to believe it can't be fixed or saved because privatised healthcare and health insurance is one of the most profitable markets in the world. Don't let them fool you!

It’s fine to look after our own poor people, absolutely. We don’t have the capacity to look after the rest of the world’s. It’s half the reason the NHS has been run into the ground.

Do you think so ? We have relatives in America, I was appalled at the maternity experience ( not home visits after the birth- no midwives ffs, no gas and air- just awful). I also know people who have been bankrupted by cancer over there.

OTOH experience in Greece was excellent and France has been fine on many occasions ( but only minor ski accidents).

This is Reform nonsense, nearly all immigrants are young and therefore fit. They usally want to work and would therefore pay taxes as well as doing many vital roles.

They also tend to drink less than those born here ( alcohol has a role to play in most chronic diseases and at least 20% of A&E attendances)

It is British born people over the age of 50 who account for the vast majority of NHS spending.

Which specific health conditions do you feel are overespresnted by the immigrant community ?

The nurses need to be paid more and valued by the NHS and society
everyone needs to take responsibility for their own lifestyle and health
a rising population is probably not helping but neither is an ageing population of overweight people with poor lifestyle choices
watch any ambulance programme on the telly and I am astounded by the lack of people’s ability to make their own way to A n Efor minor injuries
We need to value the role of nurses and encourage a larger recruitment from our own people and make sure the environment is right to retain them
private health insurance contributions should be tax deductible

How on earth would you know who or who hadn’t ‘paid a penny into the system’??
you sound a like a daily mail reader

There seems to be an expectation it will be ‘fixed’ due to new gov and people say give it time

I can’t see how it will, the funds available are being eroded and requirements not lessening

No it’s not ‘ reform ‘ nonsense at all. This is why no one is ever allowed to have a conversation about it without someone squealing it’s ‘ racist ‘. Ridiculous and people are speaking as they should be allowed to.

Please don't lmgive any mo ey to every doctor. So much wrong with that organisation, run by someone who uses it to support her lifestyle so she doesnt have to work as a dr.

Not having a go at you individually but I think this is a big problem with how we talk about healthcare in this country - we either have the NHS system or the American system where if you’re not rich you’re left without healthcare.

There are other ways of doing it, look at Australia and Holland where private health insurance for the wealthy is the norm. It’s not abandoning people without insurance it’s saying if you are wealthy enough to afford health insurance then your insurance company pays rather than the state, leaving state resources available for those who need them.

We need to recognise that it’s not the 1950s anymore, healthcare needs are much more complex and expensive, people are living much longer and healthcare costs are far higher than they were when the NHS started.

We need to get rid of the mentality that the NHS if “free” because it’s just not.

I’m in Scotland so no prescription charges which creates this kind of mentality. I bought a cream at a pharmacy recently, cost about £3, pharmacist clearly thought I was insane to just pay for it because she told me she could get it “free” on prescription. It wouldn’t have been free it would have cost hundred of pounds running it through the system, me paying £3 was the cheapest and most efficient way to do it. I spoke to someone recently whose GP wanted to give them a prescription for paracetamol again because it was “free” that way.

I understand the logic behind charging for GP appointments but I think this would lead to people turning up at A&E because you wouldn’t need to pay there so not sure that’s the answer.

Obviously some people can’t afford to pay, but I think state resources should be targeted at those people, and those who can afford to pay should. Not 100% privatisation but recognition of the fact that free of the point of use was a wonderful idea but just can’t apply in 2025.

People keep saying they are happy to pay more tax, but that’s not really true broadly. There’s a reason Labour ties themselves in knots and categorically rejected the possibility of raising income tax or vat - it would be political suicide. The tax burden is already very high, and would need to be significantly higher across the broader population (just putting it on the higher rate wouldn’t be enough) if you wanted to make a massive difference in nhs funding using current mechanisms

paying at point of service is a great idea, and long overdue, though.

Also the vast majority of people who say that probably aren’t net contributors, I can’t remember exact figure but unless you earn I think it’s over £36,000 PA you take more than you give back

Australia is a good example but the politics around the state burden is in the opposite direction to here. The electorate haven’t voted out a system that reduces that burden in healthcare or education

Tax is used too

Here we have just voted in increasing state burden, it will strain more

Well, as an American I was horrified by my birth experience in the uk. Some of what you describe as ‘horrific’ is down to different norms and preferences driven by cultural differences (I found the home visits intrusive, and as someone with a complex pregnancy was not happy that so much of my care was delegated to midwives).

my mother has had 2x knee replacements and in both instances it was less than 3 months from deciding it was time to getting it done. If I had a cancer concern in the US I would be seen and scanned within days, not the months it currently takes.

it isn’t a binary choice between us and nhs, btw but hth I would 10x prefer the us system where I would actually have the care I needed.

Ok happy to discus this. What do you think immigrants are taking from the NHS specifically ?

On average way more likely to have dependents and many more children, for starters.

I think over a lifetime most people take more from the system than they put in except the very wealthy. Although this is mumsnet where anyone with money is the enemy (take at look at the lack of empathy on the California fires thread as an example).

Tax isn’t the answer because people have a knee jerk reaction against it. Even if it amounted to the same thing financially wealthy people in the U.K. would I suspect rather pay less tax and more in private healthcare than more tax.

I met someone recently who had retired to the US and said the healthcare system was much better there, much more focussed on prevention till than cure she said. I have no experience of it personally.

But we're sleepwalking towards the US system because far too many people won't accept that the NHS needs to change radically to survive. It's obvious that more and more people will go private (both patients and staff), leaving the NHS only for those who can't afford private, with the NHS running on fewer staff, not enough money, even less reform and development, etc. It WILL become the "charity case" health system for those unable or unwilling to pay.

It desperately needs radical change, but it's not just the politicians who are unwilling and unable to achieve that, they are unwilling because the vast majority of the population havn't yet woken up and smelt the coffee to accept the NHS, as it stands, is broken and can't be fixed by constantly giving it more money. It's only hope for the future is radical reform in so many aspects, and even that will take a couple of decades as the challenge is so huge as so much of it is outdated and important areas such as GP contracts are under union control so have to be treated with kid gloves so as not to upset the unions.

Fair enough my poor SIL had to trek to her obsterician's office days after a c- section, she had no support with breast feeding at all and the baby was taken away at night. I wouldn't describe any of that as good.

In terms of cancer in the UK there is the 2 week wait so no one reffered for cancer should be waiting months- do youhave examples of this ?

Knees and hips ? absolutely wait times are shocking but people can and do pay to have it done quickly.

Children cost the NHS very little and become tax payers, the only ones we are likely to have in 50 years' time. The birth rate for British born citizens is through the floor.