How to pick a primary school?!

[Wobblytrouble]

We’re in a pickle trying to choose between two schools for our DD who will start next September. They are both 0.5 miles from our house & ofsted ‘good’ not that it means anything. We would need to use both wraparound & holiday clubs throughout the year… Here are the key points - which would you choose for 1 & 2?

School A)
5 minute walk & on route to tram stop for me & hubbie to get to work;
Positioned on busier road than school B;
3 form entry more traditional state primary;
guaranteed wraparound;
holiday club on site (ran by external provider);
mixed demographic & more representative of area;
longstanding headteachers who may be at retirement age in the next 10 years; outstanding EYFS provision;
classes are mixed up every few years; good & varied access to extra curricular activities

School B)
on quiet residential street & 5 minute walk (not on tram route so would need to double back but only work 1-2 days a week in office);
2 form entry community school;
prioritised for wraparound but not guaranteed;
holiday club offsite at different school;
mostly white affluent demographic due to its location;
great outside space as it’s positioned next to green fields;
more focussed on academic achievements & less extra curricular provision;
less overall funding it seems;
new headteacher 3 years ago & lots of positive change;
parents have commented that SENCO provision not up to scratch

Thank you for reading!

I’d go option 1! Wraparound and diversity 👍🏼

Unless guaranteed wraparound is essential for you, I would go Option B.

What are the secondary schools like? Do they rely on a feeder school or is it distance? I'm assuming you're in Manchester which is a grammar school area, is that something you're aspiring to and does either school support 11+ applications?

Do you really get a choice in your area? If so, you are lucky. We didn’t even bother looking as here, it’s all so oversubscribed for primary and secondary. You can put down whatever schools you want on the form, but you are just getting your nearest one.

Have you visited the schools? I visited about 20 schools (yes, really 🫠) and the ones that looked ideal on paper were totally wrong when I visited, and the one that on paper would be my last choice, when I visited I knew was the right one.

(It was the larger school in a more deprived, multicultural area, but with great leadership, fantastic SEND provision, happy teachers and happy kids we opted for!).

Yes we do need to prioritise as they’re both of equal distance and birth rate is low currently so they’ve all had spaces over the last few years. And I have been to visit them all! Head was turned by school A having already settled on school B.

@Idontknowtheanswer we are in Manchester but not in Trafford which is where the grammar schools are. We’re not far from the border so could try for one of the grammars but secondary wise it’s done by distance - not feeder school system. It would still be the same choice for secondary no matter which primary we choose.

Two form entry every time - other school sounds too big for little kids

It doesn’t matter really for 11+. No one in dds school has done the 11+, bar her, it’s just not a thing here. Nearest grammars are 30//40 mins away but it’s a very deprived area so it’s not on the radar for children here to do it usually.

Her school have been very supportive of her and she’s passed hers, but obviously she had to have outside tutoring for a couple of years as she wouldn’t have had a clue as 11+ work is so different from what she’s learning at school, whereas I did go to a school where ebeyone took it, so was taught it all.

School 1, unless there is a compelling reason to choose the other (friends all going there, better reputation, better sports facilities for a sporty child etc).

My two local schools sound similar to yours (except B has the guaranteed wraparound, iyswim). My sense is that over time B’s reputation as the more academic one has shifted more and more of the white MC families to B, and A is slowly declining, with more kids with additional needs and less money coming in from the less wealthy cohort it now serves.

(Not literally the same schools; I’m in London)

School A

Picking up your points that you mention for one but not other...

• does school B mix the classes? At set points, or as needed?
• outdoor space at school A?
• SENCO at School A?

For both...
Are both results good compared to local average? Or onvious reason if not?

Yes I think you’re totally right there - im just not sure which one is worth the punt?! Not sure how bothered I am about academic stuff at this age and I’m leaning towards her being better prepared for a multicultural state secondary.

which one did you / would you choose near you?

But kids with additional needs, kids from poorer backgrounds etc. bring more funding - wealthy parents don't fund the school?

They also (in my experience of my child's school) bring more acceptance, inclusion and equality. As well as more adaptable teachers and support staff.

If a school has a high number of children with additional needs (including non English speaking, or kids with English as a second/third language) chances are they have a reputation for supporting those children well and that ethos will be extended across the whole school, not just the SEND kids.

We chose B. Our A had a really woolly approach to behaviour, almost restorative justice style, which I thought would be near impossible for them to implement with a more challenging cohort. And our daughter is v academic so that sort of settled it. She is doing very well, and the school is organised and on it, but they are quite rigid.

Smaller school then.

It’s that classic thing of wealthier parents facilitating things - someone has a connection to the ROH, so Y1 has a trip there. School PTA events raise thousands - I think the PTA made north of £30k last year - which then feeds into better resourcing and so on.

Kids with additional needs get more funding when those additional needs are diagnosed, but beforehand those are just kids with potentially significant needs going through EYFS and KS1 and needing a disproportionate share of the teacher’s time and attention.

My daughter went to the “A” nursery before we moved for Reception. I wanted to love it, and I still see a lot of good in it. And the teachers are warm and lovely. But in the end I just couldn’t sit with it.

Does your child have any SEN?

we picked on basis of wellbeing being prioritised really in the school rather than academic as that was more important to us - and the school had a family feel and caring nature which ultimately we felt was best fit for our child

I guess if there are any factors for your individual child that could come into play then it's important to think of it from that perspective too

Holiday clubs don't matter if they are run by external providers, but reliable wrap around care does.

My DD has gone to various holiday clubs as her school doesn't provide one. The one nearest to her school is for older primary age children and has short hours. By going to different holiday clubs she has been able to do activity weeks like music and dance as well as just playing. She mainly goes to one so sees many of the same children who go to different schools.

My friends have done similar with their kids. So have put them in sports, science, music, dance or theatre holiday club for different weeks. (One even stayed with grandparents for a week so the kids could go to a specific club.)

Her school does provide wrap around care with no waiting list. She loves some of the staff.

I think I would have chosen school 2 in your position (as long as my DC wouldnt have been the only non-white DC in class), I prefer smaller schools for primary, I like that there's lots of green space, and that there is a strong focus on academics (DS1 was a very bright toddler, and I know it sometimes evens out as DC get older, but my hunch was right and he is still the same at nearly 9).

Yes, I would always chose the school with the wealthier middle class cohort of parents.

Been there with my older child and it was great. Parents were super involved and made the school what at it was. We Had to move to a deprived area. Christ, school doesn’t even have a PTA, no one will do a thing as even most of the parents see school as punishment. No Christmas fairs, anh events as they know parents will turn up pissed and looking for a fight, we even had two parents start on each other at the reception nativity.

I know mine is extreme - it’s in the middle of one of the most notorious council estates in the West Midlands, but it’s been the nail in the coffin of “diversity” for me. I thank fuck that dd passed the 11+ and won’t be going to the local secondary.

I would always choose the school with the middle class demographic.

School B because it's smaller and on a quiet street. It's good they focus on academic achievement and have a lot of outside space. I'm mixed race and I wouldn't focus on the race of the children at a school. That wouldn't be a deciding factor.

It depends.

My DDs school doesn't have a lot of wealthy parents but due to how the head has fund raised over the years lots of local businesses consistently give money to the school.

You could argue its due to the location of the school but my DP has another DC who went to a different primary school where the head simply has no concept of thanking any business who gave the school money, so any donation was a one off that wasn't repeated. The head also alienated the PTA, and one year half the teaching staff and nearly all the TAs left.

School A. If you need wrap around care and that isn't guaranteed at school B then school B wouldn't even have made it onto our short list. What happens if you pick B get it but don't get the wrap around care place? It sounds like a huge unnecessary headache when you've a perfectly good choice in school A which can also provide the wraparound provision you need.