How to pick a primary school?!

[Wobblytrouble]

We’re in a pickle trying to choose between two schools for our DD who will start next September. They are both 0.5 miles from our house & ofsted ‘good’ not that it means anything. We would need to use both wraparound & holiday clubs throughout the year… Here are the key points - which would you choose for 1 & 2?

School A)
5 minute walk & on route to tram stop for me & hubbie to get to work;
Positioned on busier road than school B;
3 form entry more traditional state primary;
guaranteed wraparound;
holiday club on site (ran by external provider);
mixed demographic & more representative of area;
longstanding headteachers who may be at retirement age in the next 10 years; outstanding EYFS provision;
classes are mixed up every few years; good & varied access to extra curricular activities

School B)
on quiet residential street & 5 minute walk (not on tram route so would need to double back but only work 1-2 days a week in office);
2 form entry community school;
prioritised for wraparound but not guaranteed;
holiday club offsite at different school;
mostly white affluent demographic due to its location;
great outside space as it’s positioned next to green fields;
more focussed on academic achievements & less extra curricular provision;
less overall funding it seems;
new headteacher 3 years ago & lots of positive change;
parents have commented that SENCO provision not up to scratch

Thank you for reading!

We did preschool at school A. We found there were a lot of children being raised in abusive homes and due to their trauma there was a lot of bad behaviour to manage. Our daughter was overlooked and was miserable. We moved to school B for reception and she’s thriving.

I think you need to go back to your lists and narrow down what's important.

Tram proximity - you say yourself it's not an issue

2 form/3 form entry - won't make much difference, neither are tiny schools

Holiday club onsite - total non-issue unless there isn't much club availability in your area and children at that school get priority

Extracurriculars - important, consider this

Headteacher - both sound good.

Mixing up classes as routine - I don't like this, it'd be a negative for me.

Have you visited the schools? Did you speak to the headteachers? If not then you really need to. Where did the kids seem more at ease and happier. Your child's happiness trumps everything else you've written about so think about where they will thrive, it may not necessarily be the school which looks best on paper.

A if you liked the feel of it

Just read your update - I spent too long writing my reply. I'm glad you've visited them both, maybe ask to view them again.

I know Trafford well and the grammars accept children from all over so it's still an option, especially if you live on the border of the area.

As working parents with no local family I would choose A due to the wraparound care, that would probably be the deal breaker for me. I would also like the extracurricular provision and the convenience of it being on the way to tram. From B I would like the outdoor space and smaller size. By the way, SENCO is the person in charge of SEN(D) provision.

Yes, I would be choosing the one with wraparound care too. And to be honest, many working parents will, and your child will be in wraparound care (and holiday club) with the children whose parents work, so I wouldn't worry that it will be like the sink school a previous poster had experience of. It is true that your child can go to other holiday clubs when they are older, but when they are 5 they prefer a familiar environment and known friends.

It is fair to say that diversity and good SEN provision can be a two edged sword, but so can a smaller school with an ever increasingly "people like us" atmosphere.

But do you not have a feeling for where her friends are going?

if you need wrap around care and school B doesn’t guarantee it, what is you back up plan?

I wouldn’t be put off by mixing classes. It’s good to get a break from some children and in my experience this is handled well (children pick friend choices etc).

Thank you so much for all of your replies. @TheYearOfSmallThings none of her nursery friends will be going to either as a ur nursery is a drive away near to our old house.

regarding the two school, it’s not that it’s affluent v deprived - school a is also in a good area but just has a wider catchment which also includes some estates. I’ve no real idea about where she might thrive more - she’s an outgoing little girl and has been in full time nursery since 1 year - so I don’t think a small school would
Necessarily be best. But all good points re behaviour / SEND provision

As a working parent myself you need reliable childcare so option 1/a

OP I wouldn't worry about putting her in a smaller school as 50-60 kids is still a lot.

My DD is in a much smaller school which we thought would be a problem as she is outgoing but they are encouraged and do actually mix with other years.

Also while you may not want to but if needed you can move schools in year 1 or later. While kids normally leave because of they get a place at their preferred school as others move house or emigrate, you can still change schools after year 1 because you don't like the school/head or it's not suiting your child.

One of my DD's nursery/CM friends did just that from a smaller to a larger school. The larger school has better facilities including wrap around care.

Also the main holiday club my DD attends and has done from reception age some of her nursery/CM friends attend but she prefers to play with different children.

All other things being equal, School A due to the mixed demographic intake and wrap around care. Experience of social/racial diversity from a young age will go a long way towards developing an open mind to the world.

If you went for School B, do you have a back up plan if you didn’t get into the wraparound provision?

As well as Ofsted reports, have you looked at their data (DfE Compare Schools tool)? While the headline SATs results tell you relatively little, the tool also allows you to compare overall school population (EAL; % PP; SEN with no EHCP; EHCP) and to dig under the headline results to see eg how many EAL pupils achieve greater depth, for example. Would also recommend looking back at historical Ofsteds - a school alternating between RI and Good tells a tale, as does a historic Outstanding returning to Good, and if each Ofsted has a different Head, that too is interesting.

www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables

I think I would go for school A because of the extracurriculars, wraparound and holiday club on-site, all of which will make a positive difference to you as parents in terms of convenience and to your child.

There isn’t much difference between 2 and 3 form entry - your child will have a similar experience.

My DS’s school mixes the classes at set points (after reception, after year 2, after year 4) and it is a wholly positive thing. It’s important to balance the classes after reception (once the school knows the kids) so they have a range of abilities and personalities in the class. They will keep each child with a few friends and it means they end up knowing their year group really well. This is good for all children.

Sorry - meant to clear the quote before posting!

The experience of your child at any school is about the teaching.

Length of time teaching staff have been at the school: If the new head 3 years ago came with a big or even total change in teaching staff - avoid. If not, that's a good sign of a stable, well-functioning school. If the head at the 3 form entry is presiding over frequent staff changes - also not good. You want a nice mix of experienced teachers happy at the school and newer teachers.

How many support staff and how are they used in the school? Bigger schools can be much better at this (not always). Are the teachers alone with the whole class or do they regularly have support staff in class?

Which specialist teachers does the school employ? PE? Foreign language? Music? Art? Computing? None at all and one class teacher does it all? Specialist teachers mean better lessons for your dc and potentially more time for the class teacher to plan, prep and mark.

Look at what Ofsted had to say about teaching quality. Ask questions about staff turnover.

It sounds swings and roundabouts between then tbh.

I'm a primary school supply teacher, and honestly, I've seen the full gamut of places.
There's a lot to be said for the "vibe" of a school. If you haven't already, ask for a tour. That can give you a fantastic insight.

Of all the schools I visit (21 just since September), the one I like the most, and the one I'd most happily send my children to, is the one that, on paper, is the most deprived. Huge immigrant area, very, very low socioeconomic groups, etc etc. But the children are absolutely CHERISHED and really thrive.

How busy is the 'busy' road? Do you have to cross it to get to the school? Would you be happy for your DC to walk along/across alone it when they are they are in Y5/Y6?
Is it going to impact the air quality or ability of the school to maximise use of outside space?
We are in a rural area and our small primary was on a large site so they all had outside time every day (unless the weather was very bad i.e. icy) it was fantastic for the teachers to be able to get them outside for a daily walk/run, for forest school, for a wide variety of PE. Although also rural one of our alternatives was a Victorian school with just tarmac playgrounds for daily use - they used the village rec for PE but this was across a road so couldn't be used for break times.

Thanks so much everyone. We would 100% need wraparound as both work full time. I’ve no idea how people do it without if both parents work?

the outside space at school B is great but I’ve been told they don’t actually use it as much as they could and school A backs onto a park so does have green space and apparently offers more outside time for the children ongoing. Great idea to look at the compare tool & previous ofsted reports. I’ll do that. School A has had the same headteachers for the last 20+ years but not school B. In my head I’ve mostly decided it’s going to be school A but just not sure if I’m being short sited. It is important to us that our children have exposure to different cultures and backgrounds so that part isn’t an issue for me and I would say is a selling point for us