Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

I agree with the poster who said drag seems to be more visible on the BBC. With the rise of Netflix and other streaming services, younger audiences don't watch the BBC anymore. My parents in their 80's still watch terrestrial TV, so you would think they are the BBCs target audience. My parents just don't get drag, they wouldn't watch any BBC three stuff either. I think the BBC are just not in tune with their viewers these days. The streaming services are streets ahead of them, I'm not surprised viewers are leaving the BBC.

@Workingclasslass you don’t come across as forceful. You come across as aggressive.

You won’t convince me of anything by shouting at me & swearing.

I don't like drag, I find it it cringe worthy and not funny in the slightest.

It's weird though, because I personally don't find it offensive - but when I think about it logically, I also struggle to see the difference between it and the black & white minstrel shows of the past. Both feature men dressing up as a traditionally oppressed class of people, often to the point of grotesque parody, and acting out offensive stereotypes. I think it's because of growing up with it being fairly mainstream (Dame Edna, Lily Savage). I wonder how much of it is because, like most women, I've been socialised to not rock the boat, not to be 'over sensitive', etc. It's weird because I can't imagine many comedy acts where the main schtick is a straight guy doing an over the top parody of a gay man, or a white guy parodying a black person (even Keith Lemon apologised for portraying black celebrities in the 2000s, David Baddiel apologised for impersonating Jason Lee) - that sort of stuff wouldn't go mainstream nowadays.

@Workingclasslass stop equating drag queens with homosexuality. Not all drag queens are gay men.

And dial down the aggression and rudeness, it's making you look really stupid.

damn right disgusting.

Well, I’m sorry I’m really aggressive in the face of bigotry and I think you will find That majority of drag queens are very few are not gay. In fact I’ve not seen one that isn’t not on the latest like RuPaul stuff

Thing is, many people would argue youre the bigot for being such a passionate fan of such a misogynist culture.

Debates like this go round in circles forever, on Mumsnet and in society. It’s just a fact of life that people have different opinions and will be so til the day we die, so just chill a bit.

I really liked dame Edna and lily Savage.

I think my issue with drag is that it's a parody of how they think women are and it's fake. It makes us one dimensional- all about how we look. I don't know any women like that. I also don't know any drag queens who are actually gay

@Workingclasslass It’s clear you feel strongly about this, but I think it’s important to avoid making assumptions about others, especially when you don’t know them personally. Calling people bigoted or middle class based on their opinions doesn’t help the discussion. If you want to have a productive conversation, I’m happy to engage, but mutual respect is key. I have no idea what you mean by “you guys”, but I suppose you’ve now edited it out. Anyway, let’s focus on the topic rather than personal attacks. Otherwise the only person hiding behind a keyboard and acting like a little keyboard warrior is you.

Calm down and breathe. You need to debate the point calmly and rationally to get your point across. Being aggressive loses you the argument and using words like 'fucking' to other posters makes it worse. I don't like drag.I think it's awful. I'm am entitled to my opinion, as are you.

You are totally right and I’m very sorry. I think it’s because I’ve got a borderline personality disorder. Sometimes I get a bit too heated. I just don’t like to see comments which I have seen already accusing them of being child abuse that to me really sticks in the back of my throat.

You don’t even need to look as far as Afghanistan it’s happening in England

there Was drag in the seventies that dick dude then we’re a savage for majority of my life as a child on TV there was always a drag. Yes it’s a bit more now but who gives a shit?

And Paul O'Grady dropped his Lily Savage character because he woke up to just how nasty, sexist and utterly misogynist Drag culture is.

Drag is playful, often very artistic. It is gender bending to the nth degree, showing some of the absurdities of gender norms.

I’m a woman, and not offended about it in the least. Then again, I find a lot of the conventions around makeup, having nails done, dress, etc to be arbitrary and kind of absurd….as a historian, I know that rules around costume and gender conventions have changed over time. There really aren’t absolutes…just cultural conventions.

Just read @averylongtimeago

No, he didn’t do it for that reason. Stop trying to twist it. He did it cause he was just sick of acting that out. He wanted to do something different for a bit that really wasn’t the reason why he stopped doing it.

If the performances were based on critiquing gender expectations there would be a lot more arse wiping, remembering your in-laws birthdays and reminders to be kind.
Not as hilarious as blokes with tits being total beeatches to each other

Why aren't Drag Kings promoted in the same way, why aren't they on Strictly/Bake Off, mainstream tv I wonder..?

Drag is just rubbish, it’s not funny or talented to dress up and mock women. As for the term “fishy” (when drag queens are seen to be very woman-like) it makes me want to be sick. Out of all the words available, they use that one? Yeah, they don’t like women.

Exactly maybe I should be more calmer like you guys that can put your point across more. I just find the whole idea that it’s attack on women is ridiculous because it’s not it really isn’t actually I find it interesting and that I’m amazed by how they can transform themselves so much.

@Workingclasslass "e I can’t stand people that are bigoted"

Neither can I. Do you consider my opening post to be bigoted?

Drag absolutely does parallel what blackface was. It's 'womanface' from the offensive parody of makeup, sexualised clothing to the 'entertainment' of the 'humour' which is, as a rule, parodying women cruelly.

I judge anyone who likes it but I don't say anything out loud because I am not a bully.

The people who aggressively call us bigots for not simpering and fawning about drag 'artists' are not in the right here.

No, you wasn’t but I knew where this was going to go down seen too many of these sort of posts before so maybe I was putting my point before it got to that point I mean we have had somebody tried to equate it to child abuse

I think drag in the last few decades has really changed. Someone like Paul's character of Lily savage was a comedy act and had a charm. I just don't see much talent in most modern drag artists 🤷‍♀️ and the bbc have them on all the time. It's just boring now