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Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

688 replies

CurlewKate · 26/12/2024 08:51

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

OP posts:
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sparklyfacemask · 26/12/2024 15:47

The bbc show RPDR which is a programme that some people enjoy. If you don't enjoy it don't watch it. Then the BBC are on a budget for advertising so they publicize the show by placing it's stars on their other shows like strictly or Masterchef. Which is fine - some people don't like it, well they're only a small part of the show; some people might think oh Tayce is good I'll check out RPDR.

I don't like eastenders but I understand the bbc will always put an eastenders star on strictly - it's no big deal.

MinnieCauldwell · 26/12/2024 15:50

TBH I just find drag acts repulsive, they creep me out ever since I was a child, couldn't stand it, mercifully there was not so much of it then. Now it's bloody everywhere, they are not even funny.

LeticiaMorales · 26/12/2024 16:04

worriedworker121 · 26/12/2024 15:37

That is clearly a direct quote from the previous posters question. Not my word choice.

Right. You didn't put it in inverted commas, so I understood that was what you were saying. What are you saying, then?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Abbyk1980 · 26/12/2024 16:04

LankySod · 26/12/2024 12:56

So are you saying that as long as the people “dressing up” are also oppressed it’s fine? Because the men doing drag are gay and gay people are oppressed right? So that’s why you say its fine.

So women are oppressed. So straight white men would not be allowed to do drag? But gay men can? Could straight black men do it? Because black men were/are also oppressed.

In the case of the black and white minstrels you’re saying it was different because black people were oppressed by the white people who were dressing up. Could gay white men do black face today? Because they’re oppressed as gay men? Or what about an Indian gay man?

Surely the facts are, black people were oppressed by white people (as a class). Which is why we no longer allow black face. It doesn’t matter if those white people are gay or women or anything else. We do not allow ANY white people to do black face any more.
So women are, as a class, oppressed by men. It shouldn’t matter if those men are gay or black or anything else. They shouldn’t get a free pass to take the piss out of women.

I am afraid it is about power dynamics a gay person doing black face is totally wrong because systematically black people have faced a lot of persecution for being black and even if you are gay and white you have more privilege because you are white it’s about who has the upper hand in power?
I don’t believe gay men doing drag are doing it to be nasty about women whereas racist doing black face are being nasty about black people. I guess it’s also about reasoning as to why they’re doing the performance.

LeticiaMorales · 26/12/2024 16:05

sparklyfacemask · 26/12/2024 15:47

The bbc show RPDR which is a programme that some people enjoy. If you don't enjoy it don't watch it. Then the BBC are on a budget for advertising so they publicize the show by placing it's stars on their other shows like strictly or Masterchef. Which is fine - some people don't like it, well they're only a small part of the show; some people might think oh Tayce is good I'll check out RPDR.

I don't like eastenders but I understand the bbc will always put an eastenders star on strictly - it's no big deal.

The EastEnders star will be appearing as themselves, there is usually no agenda other than learning to dance.

ArabellaScott · 26/12/2024 16:06

ZeldaStoleMyCrumpets · 26/12/2024 11:39

Of course they are. They harass and belittle gay men in much the same way as Alt Right men harass and belittle women.

Abuse isn’t always physical in nature.

Where is this harassment and belittling happening?

ZeldaStoleMyCrumpets · 26/12/2024 16:07

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ZeldaStoleMyCrumpets · 26/12/2024 16:09

LankySod · 26/12/2024 14:44

So Hole is only used because it rhymes with Cole? That’s it? Absolutely nothing to do with women’s anatomy? They just picked the only thing they could think of that rhymed with Cole? They didn’t want to use Mole? Or Bole/Bowl? Or Gole/Goal? Or Dole? Or Sole? Hole was the best they could come up with and it’s pure coincidence it makes people think of women’s anatomy?

Men have holes too and it’s clear you need the obvious to be spelled out to you, but gay men engage in anal sex sometimes.

HTH

CocoapuffPuff · 26/12/2024 16:10

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Stooping to personal attacks isn't the done thing, old gal. Why don't you just answer the question? You made an assertion, it's up to you to supply the evidence when asked.

ZeldaStoleMyCrumpets · 26/12/2024 16:13

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ZeldaStoleMyCrumpets · 26/12/2024 16:14

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johnyhadasister · 26/12/2024 16:18

wise people don't watch tv companies who turned blind eye on a man who made programs advertised as a program to make kids happy, yet it was a program to steal the life out of them.

you are watching it and making a thread about the worst of the worst possible trash these people show......good luck with your own state of cultural pursuits pondering this topic exactly. Hoping the daily mail will pick it up for you and make your mumsnet nickname a favourite of the nation.

HRTQueen · 26/12/2024 16:18

some drag the acts are genuinely funny (out of drag too) I don’t mind but some acts are just nasty towards women

but the pandering to a man because he just needs attention and his way to do this is being an outrageous drag act is tiresome

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 26/12/2024 16:19

ZeldaStoleMyCrumpets · 26/12/2024 16:09

Men have holes too and it’s clear you need the obvious to be spelled out to you, but gay men engage in anal sex sometimes.

HTH

You think that makes it better? It's still a name associated with sex.

NordicwithTeen · 26/12/2024 16:22

CurlewKate · 26/12/2024 13:33

@NordicwithTeen thank you for replying to my post, but you seem to conflating drag and trans.....

Yes, I realised after the second post - largely because the programme I cited did the same.

CocoapuffPuff · 26/12/2024 16:35

I think drag and trans are often mixed up - didn't Stonewall put drag under the Trans Umbrella a number of years ago, alongside cross dressers and many others? It's all got lumped together by them so no wonder we're sometimes talking at cross purposes.

Plastictrees · 26/12/2024 16:45

Abbyk1980 · 26/12/2024 16:04

I am afraid it is about power dynamics a gay person doing black face is totally wrong because systematically black people have faced a lot of persecution for being black and even if you are gay and white you have more privilege because you are white it’s about who has the upper hand in power?
I don’t believe gay men doing drag are doing it to be nasty about women whereas racist doing black face are being nasty about black people. I guess it’s also about reasoning as to why they’re doing the performance.

It’s not a race to the bottom and with respect I don’t think you are fully understanding intersectionality. Women are an oppressed group that make up almost 50% of the world’s population. Most women will experience violence or abuse perpetrated by boys and men in their life time. We live in a misogynistic society, where marital rape was only recognised in the 1980s. VWAG continues to be a global public health issue.

Of course women with disabilities, women who are BME and lesbians (or all 3) will experience even greater structural barriers, oppression, abuse and stigma.

Men are THE most privileged group purely because they have the most power. Of course there are marginalised groups within this, such as men who are gay, BME, disabled. However this does not take away the privilege and power of being born male. I am focusing on sex because this is what lies at the heart of this drag issue - it can be argued that men, even if they are from another minority group, dressing up as women is derogatory towards women because of the gender stereotypes most drag tends to be focused on e.g types of clothing, make up, accentuation of feminine body parts, having a drag name that is ‘risque’/objectifying to women. Even if it is not the intention of the drag performer to cause harm, harm can still be caused to women by perpetuating these gender stereotypes and objectifying women. I can see how drag and shows like RPDR can be fun and seem empowering but when viewed through a feminist lens I can also understand the concerns.

There are ways of encouraging self love, self respect, creativity, connection and confidence in gay men without undermining women and feeding into a culture of misogyny. At a time when it seems women’s rights are being eroded left right and centre I can see why this feels like another slap in the face to women - we are now expected to laugh along with this pantomime act, even though we are the punch line.

Chersfrozenface · 26/12/2024 16:46

CocoapuffPuff · 26/12/2024 16:35

I think drag and trans are often mixed up - didn't Stonewall put drag under the Trans Umbrella a number of years ago, alongside cross dressers and many others? It's all got lumped together by them so no wonder we're sometimes talking at cross purposes.

The BBC News story uses female pronouns for Tayce.

"Tayce, from Newport in south Wales, competed on the second season of RuPaul's Drag Race UK in 2020, and despite losing out to Scotland's Lawrence Chaney, she now has a trophy of her own."

Tell me again how drag and trans are different.

notprincehamlet · 26/12/2024 16:46

Please can someone explain the appeal of drag?
It's a cosy outlet for misogyny, which is enjoying a resurgence at the moment. It's filling a void where jokes about mothers-in-law and women drivers used to be. Contempt for women (especially older women) just shapeshifts, it never goes away - look at the enthusiastic and unashamed defence of misogyny on this thread alone.

Catsanus · 26/12/2024 16:48

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fatphalange · 26/12/2024 16:50

People like taking the piss out of women, that's the appeal I think.

CocoapuffPuff · 26/12/2024 16:54

Chersfrozenface · 26/12/2024 16:46

The BBC News story uses female pronouns for Tayce.

"Tayce, from Newport in south Wales, competed on the second season of RuPaul's Drag Race UK in 2020, and despite losing out to Scotland's Lawrence Chaney, she now has a trophy of her own."

Tell me again how drag and trans are different.

Yeah, I spotted that and rolled my eyes so hard I'm surprised they're still in my head. My understanding, and it was mentioned in earlier posts on this thread, are that drag artists fully acknowledge that they're blokes (they're gay men, mostly, so why'd they deny their penis and their love of the other fellas, ffs) and don't insist on wrong-sex pronouns, so why have the BBC simpered along with it in their write up? Is it a deliberate conflation or are they just unable to tell the difference now?

CandyLeBonBon · 26/12/2024 16:58

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Oh look! 'Man can perform womanhood better than actual women'

🥱

Your misogyny is showing

Manypaws · 26/12/2024 16:59

Instead of getting a man dressed as a woman why could they not just have got a woman to do it?

Catsanus · 26/12/2024 16:59

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