Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

I love watching my friends perform, I've performed with them at times over the years.

I love to see them showcase their make up skills, the costumes they create, using the music they have mixed and in some cases written themselves.
Several of my friends are trained dancers and watching any dancer perform to music they love is a wonderful thing to behold, for me anyway!
Some of them are very talented singers too.

I love that they get to mix so many of their passions, talents and skills, into a well paying job that they love.
I love to see them help causes and raise awareness for important charities and organisations in Ireland.

I enjoy seeing the impact and inspiration it gives to those people who want to perform but don't quite know how they could showcase their make up & fashion artistry with their performance skills, all in one place, especially when they feel judged on other more mainstream stages or scenes.

I'm aware people see it completely differently and that's absolutely OK, there are plenty of things in life that I dislike or hate. At least we have a choice to engage or not.

@OnlyMothersInTheBuilding
@AlisonDonut was not saying that drag queens are paedophiles. She said....and others were.
There are several men who have been employed by the BBC who have committed sexual offences and abused their position etc.

Nope 😂

Kindly, I have to disagree. The character is an act, of course, but the person behind the makeup and sequins is a real person with lived experiences.

I haven’t mentioned drag queens providing direct support to young people but by being visible in society we are showing everyone that it’s ok to be whoever they want to be and there is a place for you. Many queens talk about the confusion and fear they experienced as children or teens when they didn’t fit the typical gender stereotypes and felt alone. Surely by seeing something that confirms your own feelings are valid isn’t a negative? or by seeing someone different to society norms being accepted and loved is encouraging to someone struggling with their own identity?

I don’t think drag queens are going to suddenly convince people to do drag if that isn’t what they want, nor would they want to, but I think it allows people already having those feelings to feel validated and represented.

I appreciate everyone has different opinions on drag, that’s ok and expected. But I do find it to be misunderstood by many on this thread.

I completely agree with this. I find drag deeply offensive. I can't bear to watch drag acts.

I find them empowering as they remind me that we are all different and we have the right to be. A lot of the drag queens I follow do a lot of work for LGBTQI+ communities and spread awareness, they allow people to be themselves, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation or identity.

Spread awareness of what exactly? Drag queens are crass comedy acts, nothing more. Do you think drag acts 'allow' lesbian women to be themselves?

Why are drag queens put on some sort of pedestal as if they're a higher form of comedy, shining a light on oppressed communities? Why not Chubby Brown? Or Rod Hull and his bloody emu? What's so special about men parodying women?

Preparing myself to get totally flamed here, but whenever I see a drag act, I’m always thinking, “Somewhere under that sparkly dress is a penis” and I find that thought uncomfortable.
I know that won’t go down well with a lot of people, but it’s just how I feel.

I don’t think drag queens are going to suddenly convince people to do drag if that isn’t what they want, nor would they want to, but I think it allows people already having those feelings to feel validated and represented

What "feelings" are you talking about @worriedworker121 ?

Feelings of confusion? Feelings of anxiety around their developing bodies? Feelings around relationships? Feelings about "identity "?

Authorities are finally waking up to the fact that unquestioning validation of "feeling" is a dangerous path especially where so called gender identity is involved.

"Lived experience " is not an adequate qualification for supporting young people in this area. In fact it can be dangerous. Drag is not simply a clothing choice. It's directly related to gender stereotyping and potentially deeper psychological coonfusion for some drag artists and children they speak to. In an environment where children and young people are drilled in not being "transphobic" there is no possibility of genuine exploration of issues. Children are not free to challenge and that's an unhealthy environment.

The abuse and belittlement was straight men likening gay men to women.

The gay men agreed that it was belittling and humiliating to be likened to a woman. That is the insult they covered in glitter and galloped around the field on.

How can people fail to see the misogyny here?

Surely by seeing something that confirms your own feelings are valid isn’t a negative? or by seeing someone different to society norms being accepted and loved is encouraging to someone struggling with their own identity?

Not every feeling IS valid though. That's such a blanket statement that it's actually dangerous in my opinion.

I'm sure there will be people out there that were encouraged by how cossetted and protected Jimmy Savill was by the BBC, that bastion of standards and society norms. The society norms in Savill's case being, of course, that Savill must be protected no matter how many sick little girls he fingered in hospital.

Please note that I'm not applying the above paragraph to anyone involved in the drag scene but to the generalisation that it's good to confirm people's own feelings are valid. Sometimes, it's not.

So Hole is only used because it rhymes with Cole? That’s it? Absolutely nothing to do with women’s anatomy? They just picked the only thing they could think of that rhymed with Cole? They didn’t want to use Mole? Or Bole/Bowl? Or Gole/Goal? Or Dole? Or Sole? Hole was the best they could come up with and it’s pure coincidence it makes people think of women’s anatomy?

Gosh, we are talking about drag queens and suddenly it’s being compared to Jimmy Saville! Clearly I do not think all feelings are valid, again, this thread is about drag queens not peadophiles.

But for many young people within the LGBTQI+ community, it is important for them to see others with similar sexual or gender identities. It’s also important for children and young people, outwith the community to see and accept individuals that differ to the norm, and them. The university of Northampton has completed a study which highlights the benefits of RPDR, including reducing anxiety and depression and increasing feelings of inclusion and acceptance.

However, I realise this is a subject people feel very strongly about and while I have to disagree with some of the comments, I’ve enjoyed the discussion. I hope as a society we can be more accepting in the future.

But for many young people within the LGBTQI+ community, it is important for them to see others with similar sexual or gender identities

Eh? That makes no sense. It's mind boggling that you can even make that statement. Drag acts are parody acts- they are parodies of women. They have nothing to do with being gay.

"I hope as a society we can be more accepting in the future."

Accepting of what? Men taking the piss out of women, inventing insulting names for them, calling them 'fishy'? No thanks.

I hope as a society we can be more accepting in the future.

Me too. I hope as a society we accept males in makeup and pretty clothing whilst still calling them "he". I hope as a society we accept that same sex attraction is nothing to be condemned or applauded, it just IS. I hope as a society that we accept that safeguarding is an essential element of a civilised society and that airily waving it away because of "feelings" is mental. I hope as a society that we claw back some of our rights as women, and that the word "no" is respected, and that if that means third spaces for those who need them, then they're provided, quickly.

Spread awareness about lots of things! HIV, drug and alcohol issues, mental health issues and of course gay rights. There is far more to drag than ‘crass comedy acts’ but if you have limited experience of drag then you probably don’t realise that.

I definitely haven’t put anyone on a pedestal but felt compelled to comment as there was so much misinformation on this thread and discussion was heavily leaning one way. I like to balance things out!

I believe drag queens allow everyone to be themselves, including lesbian women. There was a competitor on DRUK that actually was/is a lesbian woman. Victoria Scone, very funny - check her out!

While I think being accepting is important, so is the ability to think critically and discerningly. There are so many ways of encouraging self-expression, positive self esteem, connecting with others and improving mental wellbeing in young people that do not include drag. I think drag has now become synonymous with supporting LGBTQI+ communities and I think the links are tenuous.

"The abuse and belittlement was straight men likening gay men to women.

The gay men agreed that it was belittling and humiliating to be likened to a woman. That is the insult they covered in glitter and galloped around the field on.

How can people fail to see the misogyny here?"

Exactly. Gay and 'effeminate' men should be free to be as effeminate as they like, without bringing women in to it.

This.

Many of the drag queens on RPDR are gay and identify as male. They do drag as an escape or an art form or both. My daughter's gay. I was told on here she'd get hassle/abuse from drag acts in Manchester. She had a blast. She wished there was an equivalent of the gay village where she lives and that she could see drag more often. She felt accepted and welcome. So I can't accept that ALL drag acts hate women, make lesbians uncomfortable etc because that just isn't true.

All of this could be achieved without parodying women. If we want to support authenticity and acceptance, why can everything that is liberating remain in place, but drop the bit that many women find belittling

Some women like pagents and beauty contests. I think these events are also misogynistic and damaging to women in general. And thankfully they are no longer mainstream events, unlike during my childhood. But I have no doubt the women involved would tell me it's been 'empowering' and a wonderful way of 'expressing' themselves. Doesn't make me want to lobby the bbc to screen them on prime time.

Drag queens "allow" lesbian women to be themselves? They need male permission and validation?

That is clearly a direct quote from the previous posters question. Not my word choice.

You don't like the term 'woman face', what else is it? It is entirely based on extreme, mocking, sexist parodies of women.

One drag supporter has already confirmed that the name Cheryl Hole is a deliberate piss take of Cheryl Cole, you know a woman.

Are you arguing that Drag is not putting on a woman costume and using women as the basis of their act?