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of mice and men, do you agree with taking it off the gcse course in Wales

115 replies

WillowTit · 23/12/2024 09:28

Of Mice and Men: Classic US novel taken off GCSE course in Wales - BBC News

although i am not in Wales my dc all studied this book in gcse

Two pupils in school uniform looking at a copy of the novel Of Mice and Men

Of Mice and Men: Classic US novel taken off GCSE course in Wales

The book's removal is welcomed by the children's commissioner amid concern about racist language.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cge922jn1z8o

OP posts:
Carouselfish · 23/12/2024 19:26

I absolutely love it and loved teaching it. So...no.

pointythings · 23/12/2024 19:44

RingoJuice · 23/12/2024 18:45

Never heard of this one, sounds interesting!!

It's a beautiful retelling, not as mawkish as T.H White but not all serious either. Unfortunately it ends just where the Lancelot/Guinevere relationship is about to kick off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Acts_of_King_Arthur_and_His_Noble_Knights

Plenty of used copies around for not much money.

The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Acts_of_King_Arthur_and_His_Noble_Knights

EuclidianGeometryFan · 23/12/2024 19:50

If it is being removed from the curriculum, I hope it is replaced with something else equally short - that is to say short enough to be read aloud in full during lesson time.

I did O' Level Eng. Lit. and one text was a Dickens novel. I guarantee I was the only one who actually read it (because I was a bookaholic). The rest of the class managed to mostly pass the exam just from lesson notes and learning what the expected answers were to the likely questions.
You can get away with that if you are 'top-set' and clever at exams, but it would not work for average or below-average pupils.

So - if a book is not read in class time, it won't be read, so what is the point?

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Bluestonecat · 23/12/2024 20:48

I studies Of mice and men 30 years ago for my GCSES.
So yes it is probably time they used a few different books.
Regarding racism and language I expect that gives students opportunity to explore this when discussing the book.? Possibly opens up some opportunities for critical discussion?
It's an American book where the history of the country is very linked with race issues. You can't really ignore the issue if doing a historical book.

But yes so many better books out there.

slightlydistrac · 23/12/2024 22:25

Hellisemptyallthdevilsarehere · 23/12/2024 15:57

Well, English language is its own subject.

Yes I know it is, but one can hardly study literature in any language without also disussing the language in which it is written.

WillowTit · 24/12/2024 06:42

oh, they have got rid of To Kill a Mockingbird as well

OP posts:
Betchyaby · 24/12/2024 09:08

It is a brilliant story that addresses many important topics, from racism, sexism, disability discrimination, isolation, class, relationships, poverty. What do they propose to replace it with and will it cover these themes is the question?

Sortumn · 24/12/2024 10:50

Middlemarch123 · 23/12/2024 16:00

This is so true. Many years ago I was fortunate enough to attend a Q&A with Margaret Atwood, held at a local University. At the time my DD was reading The Handmade’s Tale for her A Level course.
Someone asked her, or rather told her, that it was obvious why a certain colour had been picked for a part, because it signified something about a character. MA listened intently, said, ‘That’s interesting, but actually I used that colour because I like it, that’s the only reason’
It’s interesting when the author of a book or poem being studied is still alive, because they can and do contradict what is studied. My DD followed the course book and duly wrote the prescribed response in her exam, and did very well.

I knew, through years of experience and learning from colleagues how to ‘hit the marks’ for exams. I knew what was needed to turn a Grade 6 into a Grade 8. The kids I taught did well, but basically it was through following a recipe if you like, rather than being able to write well instinctively coupled with a love of literature.

I was taught at a grammar school many moons ago, and did O Levels. I remember studying Jane Eyre and Romeo & Juliet at 11 years old. Writing long essays about each. I loved those lessons, and they ignited in me a passion for writing and books that has never diminished.

When I left teaching this year, students struggled to write more than a side of A4, and reading was a chore rather than a pleasure. Of course there are exceptions, but those with a love of reading diminished in numbers over the years. Sad.

When I did my GCSEs there was no teaching to the test for any of them. In English, we read the books and then wrote about them to the best of our ability. It was about writing well and expressing our ideas rather than regurgitation.

I'm shocked at how formulaic getting through the exams can be now. I know people choose the Cambridge board (CAIE) because it is much less like that.

trivialMorning · 24/12/2024 12:52

Hellisemptyallthdevilsarehere · 23/12/2024 15:57

Well, English language is its own subject.

It is currently in Wales but this is part of the changes making it one subject again.

I haven't looked in detail at the curriculum as my youngest misses it - I know DD2 French teacher thinks it will actually be better than current for that subject - but it will be GCSE English Language and Literature Double or Single Award.

https://www.wjec.co.uk/qualifications/gcse-english-language-and-literature-double-and-single-award-teaching-from-2025/#tab_keydocuments

GCSE English Language and Literature (Double and Single Award) | Made for Wales

The GCSE English Language and Literature qualification will support the Curriculum for Wales.

https://www.wjec.co.uk/qualifications/gcse-english-language-and-literature-double-and-single-award-teaching-from-2025#tab_keydocuments

MollyButton · 25/12/2024 09:00

RingoJuice · 23/12/2024 16:28

Omg now I know why British people seem overly familiar with this book 🤭 I don’t even think it’s Steinbeck’s best tbh

It's short - the Grapes of Wrath is too long for the "boys struggling with literacy" (such as my very intelligent son btw).

SuzieNine · 26/12/2024 18:31

mossylog · 23/12/2024 15:59

What I'm saying is it doesn't have to be that way. University courses manage to set exams on whatever books they like. We don't have to have country-wide exam boards, it's just a policy choice. There are no set texts in the Finnish school system, for example.

In Finland children’s parents are expected to buy their school books. In the U.K. books are provided by the school, bought in bulk and expected to last for years. Of Mice and Men is short and easy to read hence it’s enduring popularity with schools. If exam boards dropped it from their lists that is a lot of money wasted.

pointythings · 26/12/2024 18:43

SuzieNine · 26/12/2024 18:31

In Finland children’s parents are expected to buy their school books. In the U.K. books are provided by the school, bought in bulk and expected to last for years. Of Mice and Men is short and easy to read hence it’s enduring popularity with schools. If exam boards dropped it from their lists that is a lot of money wasted.

The Dutch system doesn't do set books either. One isn't expected to buy the books - they will either be in the school library or in public libraries, and if a teacher hasn't read a particular book but it is widely considered to be of sufficient literary merit, the teacher is expected to familiarise themselves with the book. The number of books expected is also larger - for my French A level I read a total of 15 books over 2 years. Of those 15, 3 had to be plays, at least 1 had to be a volume of poetry, 3 had to date from before 1900 and 1 of those had to date from before 1800. German, Dutch and English literature had similar requirements. Nobody was expected to own all those books.

mossylog · 26/12/2024 18:50

SuzieNine · 26/12/2024 18:31

In Finland children’s parents are expected to buy their school books. In the U.K. books are provided by the school, bought in bulk and expected to last for years. Of Mice and Men is short and easy to read hence it’s enduring popularity with schools. If exam boards dropped it from their lists that is a lot of money wasted.

I enjoyed the book myself when I was at school, I get the appeal. But the bigger picture is I don't think educational decisions should really be made based mostly on what's cheap. We have a mass production system for the curriculum, and while it's more cost-efficient, it doesn't give state schools much scope for changing things up. Doing the same books each year ad nauseum presents a very limited picture of the joys of literature.

HopingForTheBest25 · 26/12/2024 19:13

I'm mixed on this. I think it will be missed because it's a book which can easily be studied by children of different abilities. It raises a lot of important issues.
It was also the only book my dd studied in school that she enjoyed - she never reads for fun and it was so nice to see her actively engaged with a novel.

That said, it's been on the syllabus forever and it's not a bad thing to have change. And if it's making real kids uncomfortable in class, that's important and should be acknowledged.

Bloom15 · 26/12/2024 21:04

It needs an overhaul- I did that for GCSE in 1996!

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