of mice and men, do you agree with taking it off the gcse course in Wales

[WillowTit]

Of Mice and Men: Classic US novel taken off GCSE course in Wales - BBC News

although i am not in Wales my dc all studied this book in gcse

I do think it is good to have a book that shows the racist language and behaviour of the time and not censor it. It shows just how wrong it was and how badly black people were treated. It's an important part of history in much the same way as the holocaust

I'd tend to agree with this. Absolutely revolting language but it was used at that time, important to realise that it's not so long ago.

This is still the case. But there are reasons why Macbeth is usually chosen for Shakespeare, A Christmas Carol for 19th C, An Inspector Calls for Modern play etc. Schools do have the freedom to pick one of the other six or seven texts in each unit.

I did To Kill a Mockingbird for O level in the 70s. My school was very racially diverse and I'm not misremembering that my black classmates (of whom there were many) did not find it "toxic, narcissistic trash". Absolutely nothing else we studied had so much as one BAME character and Tom Robinson was our class hero, not Atticus.

We had an excellent teacher who opened up lessons to enable girls to talk about their own experiences of racism. What I heard shocked me profoundly (these were my friends) and made me aware of white privilege, really for the first time.

I do get the "white saviour" argument and today, when more literature that reflects lived experience exists/is to the forefront, it should be taught, instead of or as well as books like TKAM.

Follow on from my last post about To Kill a Mockingbird and its white saviour trope, and why it should be removed from all classrooms not some as has happened, this article covers the white saviour narrative in cinema in the US (it also references To Kill a Mockingbird in its film adaptation).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_savior_narrative_in_film

"The white savior is a cinematic trope in which a white central character rescues non-white (often less prominent) characters from unfortunate circumstances. This recurs in an array of genres in American cinema, wherein a white protagonist is portrayed as a messianic figure who often gains some insight or introspection in the course of rescuing non-white characters (or occasionally non-human alien races that substitute as non-white civilizations) from their plight.

The narrative trope of the white savior is one way the mass communications medium of cinema represents the sociology of race and ethnic relations, by presenting abstract concepts such as morality as characteristics innate, racially and culturally, to white people, not to be found in non-white people.

As such, white savior stories have been described as "essentially grandiose, exhibitionistic, and narcissistic" fantasies of psychological compensation."

×××××××××××××××××××××××××××

That last line is key, its narcissistic (ie. self absorbed, such as Haper Lee, a white southern US woman, writing about the white man as the moral centre of the novel), and fantasies of psychological compensation (definition of which is, "whereby one covers up, consciously or unconsciously, weaknesses, frustrations, desires, or feelings of inadequacy or incompetence in one life area through the gratification or (drive towards) excellence in another area.")

To Kill a Mockingbird is arguably the most toxic, self absorbed work to ever enter a classroom. It's a story about racism, and the bleedin hero is not some black person who rose up to lead his people out of the tyranny inflicted by their white oppressor, no, that wouldn't be a feel good story for whitey, or "psychological compensation", instead black people are firmly in the background, the white man, the good man, the "aren't we great really", is the heroic figure. No wonder black people find this trash demoralizing.

It's so so so apt that this is "beloved" by white america, as it is a country that has zero humility, and unlike Germany and its Nazi history, has never owned theirs.

I know - and somehow we were supposed to guess the 'right' answer - according to Brodie's Notes or whatever. The teacher wouldn't allow us to come up with our own interpretation which, let's face it, is the whole point of reading a novel in the first place. Everyone takes something different away from it. Anyhow, I pointed this out in my English O'level paper (when I couldn't remember the 'official' line and thought 'stuff it'), and said I would give my own opinion on the extract given. It must have struck a chord with whoever marked it, because I got an A. 😂

Schools DO choose. But having bought the books and developed the learning materials, lessons plans etc for the chosen books, they're not likely to be able to afford to change. Plus local theatres often put on productions for schools so if all local schools are doing R and J the theatre will show it - which means the one school doing Macbeth is out on a limb.

One could suggest that Curly's wife is a reflection on how some men still regard women.
I've found HOD tend to prescribe books they themselves studied at Uni for their Lit degree.
Whole heatedly agree there needs to be a shake up,but until privileged white men stop dictating 'what is good' for pupils there won't be a change.
In two English departments I've worked in SLT ordered us to teach 'boy friendly' texts to boost attainment.
Comparing data showed this strategy didn't work.

I raised my eyebrows at that comment too! How else is one to learn about racism without the language deemed racist 🤔

Addressed properly, yes. Looking back now I am shocked at the misogyny and the disability issues, as well as the racism. Only the racism aspect got addressed when I was at school, but that was a long time ago.

I have been an English teacher for over 20 years and never got bored of teaching OMAM as every class reacted differently. I never said the N word but so many great discussions about racism, sexism, disability ... i would prefer to still be teaching it rather than TKAMB

My adult children all studied OM&M for GCSE.
I taught OM&M for many years. Honestly, I can still recite huge chunks of it.
I fondly remember the collective sigh of relief that all us English Lit teachers exhaled when our Department Head told us that he was dropping it from KS4. Then the collective groans when he added that it was going to be a Year 9 set text!

It’s a good book. It is ideal for exploring context, from ‘The American Dream’ , sexism, racism etc. It opened good debate and comparisons to other texts. I always did theme based lessons before we read it, and a lesson on racism. Always explained that when we read it we would encounter the ‘N word’ and I would read it in full. Also told students that if they were asked to do any class reading they could say ‘n’ if they felt uncomfortable. No issues with this at KS4, most students were able to understand its use contextually. Not so good with Year 9s though, and it was replaced quite quickly as a class reader.

There are fantastic contemporary books in diverse genres by Indian and Australian authors, many of which would make excellent teaching texts.

I did To Kill a Mockingbird in 1973...

😳

I remember being bored to tears by that bloody book at GCSE. Good riddance.

Really? I was so fascinated by reading it in school that I took lots of other Steinbeck books out of the library and devoured those.

Fair enough.

I hated that book, and English was my favourite subject.

i cant remember for english olevel what i did apart from shakespeare and poetry
friends studying cse english did The L Shaped room Lynne Reid Banks

It's a dreadfully boring book. By all means replace it with something better. Better still, look at education systems that don't do set books at all.

Oh I remember studying this (not in Wales though) and it was the most boring book I’d ever had to read 😅

My DC did it - DD2 Y11 sat paper last year with it - Wales they sit some GCSE exams in Y10.

Think it was chosen as short - as many schools and my older two DC were doing entire English Lit in Y10 - so completely done by start of Y11. DD2 Y11 year they left one exam - Inspector calls and another book for this May and all the English Language exams.

From article link:The new qualification, merging English language and literature in one GCSE, is part of a wider overhaul of qualifications in Wales from next September.

I wondered if it was part of that - they are overhauling everything at GCSE level- this Y10 being last to do current GCSE syllabuses. Maths goes back to one subject, English goes into one and they stop having separate sciences.

Honestly I'm glad my youngest is missing all the upheaval.

An inspector calls is still on the syllabus. DC1 is in Year 9 and she said she'll be studying it. I agree we should have literature that the children can relate to. I never liked of mice and men and I did that in the 90s when at school. It felt already like an bygone era of my grandparents then.

Ah, well, each to their own. You may well have loved some I couldn't get into.

Not many English schools teach it now, but it has been popular because it's straightforward, quick to read and there are things to say about Steinbeck's style. It was about the quickest and easiest text for lower sets. Like a PP said, now An Inspector Calls is the most popular 'modern text because it's short and straightforward. I prefer alternatives, but you have to work with what you've got, and it's expensive to replace class sets. Also, there is a pervasive attitude that all teachers in a department should teach the same texts - that used to be rare.

Of Mice and Men, as with any other historical novels, must be read in the context of the time in which it was written.

Yes, it's a book about racism, but at that time racism was prevalent, as indeed it is today, although now it's considered non politically correct, therefore tends to be less overt.

All Jane Austen's books convey the misogynistic values of their era, but no one suggests stopping studying them because their values differ from ours.

lol we did it in the 90s along with to kill a mockingbird.

we shouldnt cancel things, its not a good lesson to teach kids.