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of mice and men, do you agree with taking it off the gcse course in Wales

115 replies

WillowTit · 23/12/2024 09:28

Of Mice and Men: Classic US novel taken off GCSE course in Wales - BBC News

although i am not in Wales my dc all studied this book in gcse

Two pupils in school uniform looking at a copy of the novel Of Mice and Men

Of Mice and Men: Classic US novel taken off GCSE course in Wales

The book's removal is welcomed by the children's commissioner amid concern about racist language.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cge922jn1z8o

OP posts:
slightlydistrac · 23/12/2024 15:26

SummerBarbecues · 23/12/2024 14:19

An inspector calls is still on the syllabus. DC1 is in Year 9 and she said she'll be studying it. I agree we should have literature that the children can relate to. I never liked of mice and men and I did that in the 90s when at school. It felt already like an bygone era of my grandparents then.

That's it, isn't it? A bygone era. Which isn't so bad when it is set in the bygone era of the country in which it is being taught, or is at least within living memory of some people.

Not so helpful when it is set in the bygone era of a foreign country on the other side of the Atlantic, with a different culture and history, particularly towards racism.

BeCalmNavyDreamer · 23/12/2024 15:31

The kids I teach Love An Inspector Calls, same kids who don't enjoy OMAM, it's aged better.

DeffoNeedANameChange · 23/12/2024 15:32

It's not being removed from libraries. Students are still very welcome to read it, and I'm sure their teachers would still happily discuss it with them.

But when young people tell us that they dread having to study a book in class, that it makes them uncomfortable and singles them out amongst their peers, then we absolutely should listen to them.

I don't understand any white adults blethering on about how it's a crucial text in teaching kids about racism when there are many, many black kids who have been saying very clearly for a long time that's not the case.

Interested in this thread?

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DeffoNeedANameChange · 23/12/2024 15:38

Oh, and also "but it's an accessible text that children can get good grades from" shouldn't come into the discussion.

pointythings · 23/12/2024 15:42

TouchoftheTism · 23/12/2024 15:21

lol we did it in the 90s along with to kill a mockingbird.

we shouldnt cancel things, its not a good lesson to teach kids.

It's not about cancelling, it's about updating. A lot of great books have been written since the 1930s, we need to include great modern novels.

slightlydistrac · 23/12/2024 15:43

English literature classes should be teaching kids about English literature and the English language. The standard of literacy in many school-leavers is appalling.

pointythings · 23/12/2024 15:43

BeCalmNavyDreamer · 23/12/2024 15:31

The kids I teach Love An Inspector Calls, same kids who don't enjoy OMAM, it's aged better.

It has, given that the UK still obsesses about class.

YogaLite · 23/12/2024 15:45

Totally agree with you OP. In fact I complained about it to the school (not in Wales) because I was uncomfortable on behalf of my disabled ds who had been bullied at the time.

Dreadful book.

Hellisemptyallthdevilsarehere · 23/12/2024 15:56

pointythings · 23/12/2024 15:42

It's not about cancelling, it's about updating. A lot of great books have been written since the 1930s, we need to include great modern novels.

Only in the 'modern texts' section. GCSE English literature is also about texts from the past.

Hellisemptyallthdevilsarehere · 23/12/2024 15:57

slightlydistrac · 23/12/2024 15:43

English literature classes should be teaching kids about English literature and the English language. The standard of literacy in many school-leavers is appalling.

Well, English language is its own subject.

Isobel201 · 23/12/2024 15:58

I read To kill a Mockingbird and Mice of Men as a teenager. I will still read them now quite happily - its just the way people were treated back then, and I'm glad its improved, but it won't stop me from reading those older books.

mossylog · 23/12/2024 15:59

SuzieNine · 23/12/2024 11:38

Because in the U.K. exams are set by national boards, not by individual schools.

What I'm saying is it doesn't have to be that way. University courses manage to set exams on whatever books they like. We don't have to have country-wide exam boards, it's just a policy choice. There are no set texts in the Finnish school system, for example.

Middlemarch123 · 23/12/2024 16:00

QuestionableMouse · 23/12/2024 10:56

And as an author, there's not always a good reason why I'd use one phrasing over a different one.

But "because it sounded better to me" doesn't really cut it in English Lit! Sometimes the curtains are just blue! 🤣

This is so true. Many years ago I was fortunate enough to attend a Q&A with Margaret Atwood, held at a local University. At the time my DD was reading The Handmade’s Tale for her A Level course.
Someone asked her, or rather told her, that it was obvious why a certain colour had been picked for a part, because it signified something about a character. MA listened intently, said, ‘That’s interesting, but actually I used that colour because I like it, that’s the only reason’
It’s interesting when the author of a book or poem being studied is still alive, because they can and do contradict what is studied. My DD followed the course book and duly wrote the prescribed response in her exam, and did very well.

I knew, through years of experience and learning from colleagues how to ‘hit the marks’ for exams. I knew what was needed to turn a Grade 6 into a Grade 8. The kids I taught did well, but basically it was through following a recipe if you like, rather than being able to write well instinctively coupled with a love of literature.

I was taught at a grammar school many moons ago, and did O Levels. I remember studying Jane Eyre and Romeo & Juliet at 11 years old. Writing long essays about each. I loved those lessons, and they ignited in me a passion for writing and books that has never diminished.

When I left teaching this year, students struggled to write more than a side of A4, and reading was a chore rather than a pleasure. Of course there are exceptions, but those with a love of reading diminished in numbers over the years. Sad.

Endofyear · 23/12/2024 16:03

TouchoftheTism · 23/12/2024 15:21

lol we did it in the 90s along with to kill a mockingbird.

we shouldnt cancel things, its not a good lesson to teach kids.

It's not cancelled, anyone is free to read it if they wish. I think it's just been removed from the school curriculum and I don't think that's a problem - there are millions of books and it's good to change things up sometimes. I loved the book but I can see how if you were the only black child in the class, you might feel uncomfortable, embarrassed and upset at some of the language in the book and the discussions taking place around the subject matter.

pointythings · 23/12/2024 16:08

Hellisemptyallthdevilsarehere · 23/12/2024 15:56

Only in the 'modern texts' section. GCSE English literature is also about texts from the past.

Well, obviously. Hence Shakespeare and Jekyll and Hyde. Here too a range of options are available.

MrsKeats · 23/12/2024 16:18

It's a terrible idea to remove it.
Steinbeck was showing the horrors of segregation.

Lillixyng · 23/12/2024 16:22

I agree it should be withdrawn. Many years ago I belonged to an all white small writers group. One of the group and English teacher was complaining that Muslim parents wanted to withdraw their daughters from the class as the novel was ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’ . All of the group agreed it was awful. When it was my turn to speak I said that I supported the parents. A lone voice.

ItGhoul · 23/12/2024 16:26

Why does Of Mice And Men have to be on the syllabus? It's a good book but it's only one of many thousands of classic novels that are of equal value; it doesn't deserve a place any more than any other novel.

The only reason it's often chosen for GCSE is because it's short and easy to read, not because it's better than any other classic novel.

RingoJuice · 23/12/2024 16:28

Omg now I know why British people seem overly familiar with this book 🤭 I don’t even think it’s Steinbeck’s best tbh

pointythings · 23/12/2024 17:32

RingoJuice · 23/12/2024 16:28

Omg now I know why British people seem overly familiar with this book 🤭 I don’t even think it’s Steinbeck’s best tbh

I agree so hard. And I still wish he had managed to finish his retelling of the Arthur legends - I have it as an unfinished work and it was so, so good.

Beezknees · 23/12/2024 17:35

I didn't do this one at GCSE in the 00s so have no idea what it's about. Can't actually remember what we did, I remember reading The Picture of dorian grey so maybe that one.

lto2019 · 23/12/2024 17:55

It is a great book for GCSE in terms of length you want kids to be able to read the full novel - in terms of language and context - the working classes -the depression it is good. The teacher who said it is in the book - should have discussed WHY it was in the book - why people at that time felt it was acceptable to use that language. That said, there should be other books which are suitable and not done to death.
Like To Kill a Mockingbird the point is, the people who use that language are shown to be ignorant bigots - they are not the great characters so if they (the kids) are learning from it - should it be dropped?
Lots of books deal with difficult topics - they can't all be dropped.

Wolfpa · 23/12/2024 17:57

I did that for my GCSEs over 20 years ago, surely things have been updated since then

EBearhug · 23/12/2024 17:57

Lots of books deal with difficult topics - they can't all be dropped.

There also isn't time to read everything, so you have to pick and choose the ones to study.

RingoJuice · 23/12/2024 18:45

pointythings · 23/12/2024 17:32

I agree so hard. And I still wish he had managed to finish his retelling of the Arthur legends - I have it as an unfinished work and it was so, so good.

Never heard of this one, sounds interesting!!

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