Any teachers who know the answer? Really stupid question about working hours

[sleetandwind]

We have five one hour periods a day, plus twenty minute form time and twenty minute break. Lunch is forty minutes but unpaid (I think.)

I want to drop half a day, to work two and a half days rather than my current three. Would this be three hours?

I’m not a teacher but on your half day you wouldn’t be entitled to any breaks as you have to work 6 hours to get a break. I’d double check the hours calculation with your union.

Thanks @WaneyEdge - I know, it’s just that it is included in the whole day if that makes sense, so if the day is 835 - 3, then that’s six hours and twenty five minutes minus forty minutes lunch so five hours forty five minutes. But I am pretty sure there is something in our contracts that we have to start ten minutes before the children arrive and stay ten minutes later.

Not the contract- it is directed time 1265 hours a year for full time- each school can specify how that is allocated

In primary mornings are longer than afternoons and so if you did all mornings you would be paid more than doing all afternoons

You're currently 0.6, you want to be 0.5

Take your current hours, divide by 0.6, x 1 then ÷2

Or just work out half of a full time teacher?

You can tell I don’t teach Maths!

My current teaching hours are fifteen hours a week but then there is form time on top of that and break.

@JollyHollyMe it is the same in secondary: a very long morning in fact, four hours then just one hour in the afternoon. So by going to 0.5 I don’t know whether I’d be dropping two hours or three. I think it’s three.

Ours is entirely based on our teaching hours; everything else is irrelevant. A full time member of staff teaches 43 hours a fortnight, has 4 hours of PPA and 3 frees, which will occasionally be used for cover. 0.5 is tricky as 43/2 isn't a whole number of lessons but would probably be 21 hours of lessons a fortnight, 4 hours of PPA and two frees. I was on 0.68 last year to make my hours work so it can be any fraction. Form time etc is entirely dependent on when you're in and doesn't effect pay. One year I didn't have a form at all as I wasn't working many P1s; some years I've done form every day I'm in.

Your contract is based on percentage of a full time teacher's teaching hours only, it doesn't include form time or break time.

Thanks, @noblegiraffe So to drop to 0.5, I’d technically have to drop two and a half hours which obviously isn’t possible because teaching periods are an hour in length, that’s correct isn’t it? So I’d be looking to drop two hours, which would presumably put me slightly above 0.5?

Or work 2 days one week and 3 days the next ?

This would be perfect but I’m changing my hours for school pick ups next year.

Are you certain that the timetable will be written to give you what you are after?
It sounds like you would be asking not to work last lesson every time - which (depending on the size of the school) could have big timetable implications.
The person I know timetabled 0.5 is sometimes in for form, sometimes in for p5 (and that happens to fall on staff meeting day, and she is expected to attend). Her days also change each September. I'm not sure if this is typical or poor timetabling at our place.

I'm a 0.5 teacher, but primary so could be different. Wednesday from 12pm, all Thursday, all Friday. Job share is the opposite, all Monday, all Tuesday and Wednesday until 12pm. Could be different as it's primary, so the days aren't split in the same way lessons/periods wise.

Could you not stay at .6 but use your ppa afternoon to work from home/pick up your children?

Teachers get a paid break ... nothing to do with working time regulations.

My school wouldn't guarantee specific days/times off (like wanting P5 off for school pick up, or Mon-Tues off). They actually deliberately say they won't accommodate any requests, otherwise part timers would be dictating the entire timetable decision making, which isn't reasonable.

They’ve said they will @SnowyIcySnow - not formally admittedly but the assistant head in charge of timetables does try to be accommodating. Which I appreciate (and have told him so!)

Thats the problem @ScoobyG (and @sixtiesbaby88 ) it’s secondary so hours just aren’t the same.

When I was pt they would do creative things with ppa's and tutor time to make my hours fit. E.g. only one tutor time per fortnight when I was 0.4 so I got 3 x 20mins free which would make up one ppa.

If only teaching time is counted it’s possible for me to stay at 0.6, as if I ask not to be given a form p1 starts at 9. So that would be OK, although still a bit rushed.

And this is why so many female teachers are quitting in their thirties. This bullshit approach needs to stop.

Yes - completely. If my school took that approach I’d have to leave, which would be a shame as I am value for money and I get the kids through the exams well.

Teachers are subject to the same working time regulations as everyone else. Lunch break is not paid. Any other breaks are breaks for the children, not staff and you can be directed to do duty or anything else during break times.

I don't think it is bs at all.

What if no-one in that department wants to teach the first lesson of the day, or no-one wants to teach the last lesson ?
There are so many things that need to be taken into account for timetabling in secondary, there's no way you could propose people can pick and choose which lessons they want to teach.

I've friends who've taught PT in secondary who have consistently been given their lessons spread across all days of the week. I like to hope that a decent school would avoid that, but once you start letting people say they won't ever teach last lesson, it would just become a nightmare, and I suspect would cause more resentment than an increase in goodwill.

What if no-one in that department wants to teach the first lesson of the day, or no-one wants to teach the last lesson?

Well then, clearly some sort of split would need to be worked out. But saying 'no' to any request instead of trying to work with them is leading to an exodus of female teachers of childbearing age and the profession can't afford that. It needs to change when it comes to flexible working, and the DfE acknowledge that.

Teaching has a much lower proportion of part time workers than other professions.

It's a break between lessons for pupils. Most staff are directed to be on duty.

We’ve had that arrangement before, used to get the last period off a few times a week and contract states not on certain days - minimal salary difference of 10% but allowed pick up half the time.

there’s a teacher shortage, it makes sense to make allowances if you can.