Is it moral to leave tribes alone in the modern world?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/dec/22/exclusive-photographs-reveal-first-glimpse-of-uncontacted-amazon-community-massaco

Never really understood the reluctance for more intervention with remote people when they are citizens of Brazil and are therefore under the same laws as the rest of the Brazilian populace, have the same right to healthcare, education etc. Also they should have the right to vote in Brazil's democrqcy.

It just feels like a human zoo and sits badly with me.....

The modern world is built by greed. In many parts of the world the economy is such that two parents need to work full time in order to get by - children are sent to childcare at a young age spending the majority of the day away from their parents, people don't have time to care for elderly relatives (because they're working) so they have to outsource that to care homes. Obviously care homes and nurseries cost money so it creates a vicious cycle. Social media and newer tech are addictive and encourage mass consumption and teenagers to seek out external validation. Mass consumption is destroying the planet. A huge amount of food is so far removed from its natural form that it's lacking in nutrients and slowly killing us. The things people enjoy doing - creating, relaxing, gardening, singing, walking in nature - are relegated to things we can squeeze in outside of work rather than the things that actually give our life meaning and we prescribe people tablets to help them cope with living in a world that isn't built to promote happiness rather than changing the structure of society.

I'm fairly sure that in order to have survived as a tribe for so long, they're looking after their young and it would be highly unusual for a group of people living together not to have some form of justice. Leave them alone.

This bucking of a global trend of cultural loss and disappearing languages has been accomplished by the innovative public policy of not initiating contact – which was pioneered by Brazil in 1987 after decades of government-led contact killed more than 90% of those contacted, mostly from disease. Since then, Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, and Bolivia have adopted versions of the approach.

From the article.

The article explains that the cameras are to provide evidence that the tribe has grown in order to lobby for protection of their lands. You do know that these are the indigenous population and had colonialists not arrived and plundered most of Brazil then these tribes and others like them would exist all over the country. They don't need rescuing and assimilating into modern Brazil, they need their way of life, which is the ultimate in sustainable living, their cultures and traditions protecting for as long as possible. Look what we've done to the rest of the planet in the name of human progress. In our constant drive to improve things, get richer and raise life expectancy we are about to make our planet uninhabitable.

They have no immunity to many of our diseases. In the past whole villages have been wiped out by well intentioned missionaries and modernisers. We need to leave them alone for their own sake.

I very much feel they should be left alone. They are probably the only happy people left on earth! How dare we destroy that.

In fact fook said it perfectly and eloquently

They are more likely to die if contacted actually. Because they don't have hundreds of years of immunity to any diseases that we carry.

Yes - this entirely.

They live on what has since been appropriated (probably by default and assumption) as Brazilian territory; but they don't live in Brazil.

It's not a case of them wanting all the benefits of a society, but then also wanting to ignore the rules of that society andbsopt out only when it suits them; they have never been in any way part of that society.

They don't want the 'good' things of Brazil and they don't want the 'bad' things of Brazil; they simply are not part of Brazil, but they happen to live on land that has since been grabbed by Brazil - going by Brazil's desires and not by theirs.

Imagine it on a much smaller scale: if the people who lived in the house next door to you decided that your house (owned outright and completely paid for by you) should now be part of a commune, that just so happened to need to be ruled by them, with them making all of the decisions - including what colour all the walls must be painted, what you must all eat, how you must all dress, how you must speak and being up your children (exactly the same way as they already perfectly parent their little Jocasta and Tarquin, of course), what job you must do etc.

They may not be tyrants - they may be genuinely wanting what they assume to be the best for everybody and the lifestyle that (in their eyes) everybody should be able/expected to live.

Your desires and choices may be vastly different from theirs but - bless your sweet, funny little ways - they obviously know that their way is the right one and yours is thus automatically wrong. Are you seeing the issue now?

I think it's possible to both think that the modern world does have better healthcare, education, technology etc, and also at the same time that given their current situation and past experience in similar ones, that in practice they would greatly struggle to access all those advantages if they were contacted/integrated, while experiencing all the serious disadvantages PP have mentioned.

I think it's a bit naive though to make comments like "they are the only ones living with nature, the ones who are truly happy, really they are the superior ones for they have unlocked true meaning" etc etc. I've got my issues with modern culture but life in a tribe can be violent, hungry, competitive, degrading to an extent that would probably shock a lot of Mumsnet. (My research interest area is Africa rather than South America but the principles are likely similar.)

This comes across as really racist and paternalistic. Although they are living on land that someone who has nothing to do with them decided was part of Brazil, they aren't part of that society.

What happens when someone is murdered in France? Iceland? Ireland? It is dealt with in whatever way that society chooses to deal with murders. Just like Aboriginal Australians, Native Americans, and the peoples of countless places dealt with their own law and order before colonists decided their way was better. I imagine it's the same in uncontacted tribes.

The children will be receiving an education. They will be learning whatever is deemed important by their society. Just because that's likely different to how we educate children doesn't make it wrong.

Healthcare should be offered if requested, but I'm doubtful whether it would work in the tribe's favour to access it. Just look at how many indigenous people have died worldwide from diseases introduced by outsiders.

I thought we'd moved on from wanting to 'save' the 'poor savages'. Would you like them to be handed a bible and some nice, western clothes too?

Do not create or bring your perceive problems to people who live perfectly fine. How patronising and disrespectful.

Blimey, the racism is strong with this one 😳

I think it’s wrong to try to impose our ways of lives on others. Just because they live differently doesn’t make them wrong. I think it’s quite arrogant to assume our way is the right way for everyone.

You sound a bit patronising TBF. They don’t want contact or our modern amenities. If they did, they’re perfectly capable of signalling so. I believe some tribes have sought outside help on occasion, but this has to be carefully managed to ensure they’re not exposed to illnesses that are trivial to us but fatal to them because they have no immunity to them.

Agreed. I can see the OP's point. I know there is nowhere as isolated as that in the UK but if an isolated impoverished village were to be found and denied any access to the modern world would that be moral?

It would depend on what individuals in that community wanted rather than imposing things on them. Things don't always stay the same although some in this country claim they would prefer (an imaginary) version of the 50s.

The human zoo aspect comes from keeping a community preserved and not allowing them to develop and progress. I don't know the answer but these people have the same rights as anyone else.

Who is to say the West is better? Colonising people imposed our ways but in the vast majority of countries the people are unhappy. Population rockets, massive cracks in society, children unhappy in schools these things aren't better.

It's incredibly sad when people die but these tribes will have a natural birth and death rate keeping the tribe in sync rather than our current raging population because of antibiotics and modern medicine. Of course we access these things for our families but it doesn't mean they aren't problematic on a global level.

Who is to say our education system is correct, education is and was always set up as childcare so parents can go to work for the companies and mills etc and it is not so different now. Most of the things our children learn are interesting but unnecessary if they lived a more practical life and lots of children are miserable at school as it doesn't support their learning needs. Most of us work in made up jobs, that if they all ceased to exist tomorrow would make little difference. If you lived a practical life of hunter gathering, growing your own food, making your own clothes your life may well be harder but. Think overall health and well being would be better

How do you know they don't have medicine?

If they don't want the rest of the world, the rest of the world should leave them alone.

Leave them alone. I wish them all the luck in the world but fear they will need it. Modern life will inevitably destroy them eventually. They will need strong friends to protect them from deforestation etc.

Too late to stop colonialism and its effects across most of the planet but we can try.

Whose morality? History will give you the answer you are looking for. Indigenous people should be left alone and their land should be ringfenced and also left alone.

I completely agree with you OP, why don’t you start helping to solve the issue by going to North Sentinel Island to help the residents.

It's IMMORAL to interfere! They should never have been filmed.

Leave them alone.

They have a community and survived so far without being annexed to the modern world.
We (Europeans/ The West) have destroyed so many cultures through greed and superiority complex, it's time to relise that not everything we do is the best for other cultures and communities.

I suspect that their tribal lands hold some economic value - so their lives will eventually be destroyed. 😢

Self hatred it's so unbecoming

People should have the right to self determination, whether Portuguese colonists or the Pope (treaty of tordessailes 1492) drew lines on a map over a huge piece of the earth or not. I bet this tribe does not have debt, recessions, homelessness, fuel and food poverty and plastic pollution everywhere. I hope they can be left alone if that is what they want.