How much do you still experience men being "ladies first"?

[SquidGaming]

Just been at a work conference, and it's made me think. If I'm really honest, I've always quite enjoyed men being chivalrous in minor ways (holding doors etc). And to be fair, I also, as a woman, do those things by habit (after you; holding doors; filling other people's drinks first, etc). So I was just quite surprised when, as a group of us were waiting for 2 taxis, I was the only one who volunteered to wait for the second one. Everyone else seemed to just push forward to get into the first. Same on the way home. 8 of the 10 people were men. Is thus weird? And am I making it about sex when sex is actually irrelevant (the other woman didn't offer to stay, either)? Also - I have had quite a bit of privilege in my life, so I suppose I haven't had to do much pushing and shoving to make my way in the world. Am I being prejudiced against those who have had to do more of that, when I notice this stuff?!

I have noticed when I need help getting my pram on and off trains or up the stairs, 9/10 it's another woman who offers to help me.

Interesting.

I notice a big difference between Ireland and the UK for this. Irish men are still afraid of getting a clip on the ear from the mammy, and UK men will walk over you in the street if you don’t jump deferentially out of the way.

All the time to be fair. I can’t imagine a man rushing to get in a taxi in front of me, but then I am quite small and vulnerable looking (I’m not my friends nicknamed me feisty mouse 😂).

I really have an issue with this. I want and expect equality not 1950's nonsense. If someone has a greater need then I would offer, not based on sex.

My experience of buggies on public transport in a capital city was teen boys were likely to quietly offer help.

Rarely now, thank goodness.

I suspect it’s a combination of factors. I used to get far more of it when I was younger, which I either accepted or politely refused based on need, and I’d also return the favour to both sexes, so felt it was pretty even, but it had definitely tailed off with age.

I’ve recently become an occasional wheelchair user and will often have my chair with me even if I’m not sitting in it, partly as a walking aid. It has really surprised me the number of men who have offered to help me up and down steps, or waited for me to go past, compared to women who have knocked into me with buggies, or glared at me for not moving out of their way quickly enough or because their child has run out in front of me. That really surprised me.

All the time - at work, in the gym at the bar, out shopping. It always reminds me that there are polite people (mainly men) out there. IMO, a woman would be more likely to let a door slam in my face than a man.

If any man said or demonstrated ‘ladies first’ to me, they’d get the sharp end of my tongue.

People should consider the greater need. Nothing else.

Why?? Wouldn't a polite "thanks, but no thanks" be sufficient? Why start telling them off for what was kindly meant, just not to your taste??

I wouldn’t assume it was ‘kindly meant’. I’d assume it was patronising and belittling.

People are just more selfish and thoughtless now. Noticed it from everyone.

So if you and another random male customer are walking up to the counter in Starbucks or somewhere, and he says "ladies first" and gestures for you to go ahead of him, that's patronising and belittling? Riiight.

But even if (big if) it's belittling, why do you have to respond by giving them "the sharp end of your tongue"? Why be rude and aggressive just because someone else is letting you go first for whatever reason??

A simple no is always an option.

@Behindthethymes that's interesting, maybe there is a culture difference. I often read threads here and am surprised by what other people experience of rude men. I'm in Ireland and i find men to be very courteous, obviously there are always some assholes but generally there is lot of chivalry. I would say the least accommodating profile would be young women in 20s but that is hugely generalising because most are lovely.

My dh does this to the point of being awkward. It annoys me actually as he will block a door or the flow of people. For example if a few people are getting out of a lift and he is nearest the door, he causes everyone to shuffle round him because he says 'after you' and gestures to any female or older man. I've had to explain that in that situation it's more polite to just leave and get out of the way.

I generally notice most men to be white chivalrous, I don't expect it though. DH is chivalrous, I've had to specifically ask him not to open doors for me in taxis as I find it awkward getting in then waiting for him to go around the other side

I would assume many men take the view that they can’t win in this area because whatever they do could lead to criticism, or worse, and particularly in the workplace.

If they treat women completely as equals by only holding doors open for them or allowing them to go first in the same way they would a man, they could come across as rude. But if they do hold doors open etc they could come across as patronising or sexist.

"UK men will walk over you in the street if you don't jump deferentially out of the way"

I'm sick of it now. Just lately I have developed the 'stop and look at my watch' tactic, so when confronted by a man proceeding towards me like a tank and expecting me to leap aside, I don't. I stop dead in his path and consult my timepiece, or rummage in my bag. The consternation this induces in the entitled twats is a joy to see. They can't quite believe that they are the one who needs to change course, but they have to go round me or stop dead themselves. 😂

This is a great idea!

Irish men 😍🥰😇

In that scenario, it would be nothing but patronising. Thankfully, men that simper ‘ladies first’ are a dying breed. So yes, I’d make a point of telling him so. I wouldn’t be rude, but I’d be forthright.

It depends on how you look.
I'm getting "ladies first" all the time unless I am in my scruffy hoddie, zero make up and looking dead. Than I have to wait.
I will probably struggle to adjust once I hit that older and invisible age 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'd be concerned that people would think I was just being absent-minded or inattentive to what was going on around me and that I was at fault there if I used the looking at my watch tactic. I generally stop dead and look directly at them so they are fully aware I'm claiming my fair share of the pavement and won't be walking in the road for them.

Okay we clearly disagree, but I'm curious now. What if the random man just gestured and said something generic like "after you". Would you still tell him he's being patronising?

I personally think it's a shame that small everyday gestures of politeness (letting someone go in front of you, standing up for an older person, holding the door open etc) are becoming a minefield. It puts people off doing them at all and I think our society is the worse off for it.

It's actually been shown that the quality and quantity of interaction with strangers can have an affect on our mental health. www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/08/23/1193148718/why-a-strangers-hello-can-do-more-than-just-brighten-your-day

I remember a man rushed to get into the supermarket checkout queue before me and my instant reaction in my head was 'you rude little man, that's not nice cutting in front of a lady' but when I think about it why should a lady go first? We are battling for equality, to be equal, to be paid the same, do the same jobs etc etc, so why on earth should the woman feel she should go first? Because we are weaker and cant stand in the queue 5 mins longer. Ideally of course regardless of sex he should have looked at me to gauge who should go first and a smile or acknowledgement about going first.