How much do you still experience men being "ladies first"?

[SquidGaming]

Just been at a work conference, and it's made me think. If I'm really honest, I've always quite enjoyed men being chivalrous in minor ways (holding doors etc). And to be fair, I also, as a woman, do those things by habit (after you; holding doors; filling other people's drinks first, etc). So I was just quite surprised when, as a group of us were waiting for 2 taxis, I was the only one who volunteered to wait for the second one. Everyone else seemed to just push forward to get into the first. Same on the way home. 8 of the 10 people were men. Is thus weird? And am I making it about sex when sex is actually irrelevant (the other woman didn't offer to stay, either)? Also - I have had quite a bit of privilege in my life, so I suppose I haven't had to do much pushing and shoving to make my way in the world. Am I being prejudiced against those who have had to do more of that, when I notice this stuff?!

I like that tactic. Have to say I've noticed this much more in other countries. Spain, Portugal, Croatia to name a few. Especially the men but the women too. They almost seem to spot you then walk towards you. It does come across as rude to me but I think they do it to everyone!

Men constantly barge in front of women in queues these days.

Okay we clearly disagree, but I'm curious now. What if the random man just gestured and said something generic like "after you". Would you still tell him he's being patronising?

There is a world of difference between ‘after you’ and ‘ladies first’.

I’ll say ‘after you’ as a matter of politeness, for example in Pret where there is no queue as such and 2 or 3 people might be ready to pay at once. ‘Ladies first’ is never not annoying, sexist and patronising to me.

I've had people shove me off the pavement into oncoming traffic when I tried to walk where I was going without giving way when they barged in or cut across. More recently I've had people move me with hands in the small of my back or even pick me up by the shoulders from behind. This is always in places that are heaving so I don't see who it is or get a chance to call them out.

Before anyone asks, I'm more medium than small.

“Ladies first” has a performative element to it (I am such a great man and you are a weak woman !) compared to a more general “After you “ which means the person would offer the space to people who aren’t necessarily female which is good manners as I see men ignoring note “vulnerable” groups like people with buggies and the elderly.

I think the taxi thing is about the world having become a tougher place, and we are a less supportive and less homogeneous society than we were. I also think we are less etiquette driven. I do think 20 years ago there would have been more ‘oh you go first’

I haven’t noticed men overall being much different to 20 years ago - I think then and now women are more likely to notice who needs a seat, but men do too, and are still quite good at offering to help with heavy suitcases on stairs.

I am a great believer in just asking people to do things, both for myself and others - eg would you mind letting this (elderly) gentleman sit down / go first, and I find people are fine with that.

This is genius, I am adopting it immediately

This is one thing I do notice youngish men doing a lot and it really really pisses me off

Unless you really think it’s intended to be patronising I think you can make your point more effectively with a lighthearted ‘no ladies here so crack on’.

It’s a brutal world, and it’s nice to acknowledge kindness even if you choose not to accept it.

I still experience 'ladies first' or 'after you', the latter I use also, but I take it in the way it's intended, which has been, just politely letting me go first. I have never heard it said in any kind of patronising or demeaning way.

No one has said 'Ladies first' to me for many years now, but I do quite often get 'after you' or a hand gesture. More men than women, but it isn't all men. So I choose to treat it as politeness and consideration, and make sure I say 'thanks!' as I go. General consideration is always to be encouraged and is quite different from the Andrew Tate 'treat them all as greedy whores' school of chauvinism.

The last time a man (he was 70 ish) said ‘ladies first’ to me and made a dramatic point of standing aside from the door he was about to go through, I offered him a beaming smile and equally patronisingly said ‘no, no! Age before beauty!’ as I stood back.

I work in a town centre unfortunately full of chuggers. They annoy the shit out of me too with all their ‘hello beautiful!’. Fuck off. Do they really think women are that pathetic?

The men I work with and know are chivalrous. Never in a patronising way but in a thoughtful and charming way. No one has ever said “ladies first” but there’s definitely an understanding that women are to be treated with respect and that includes opening car doors; being served first; holding office doors; carrying bags etc etc.

So if you and another random male customer are walking up to the counter in Starbucks or somewhere, and he says "ladies first" and gestures for you to go ahead of him, that's patronising and belittling? Riiight.

Yes, it is a bit. If he just said 'after you' - totally fair enough. Any man or woman might do that to be polite. I'm a woman, not a 'lady', and I don't need to be treated differently because of what sex I am.

Gosh you sound awful.

After an occasion of being told to “fuck off” for letting someone go first, I can understand some men deciding it’s not worth it

@Behindthethymes

Maybe I need to move to Ireland 🤣

I don’t think I’ve ever had ladies first be a thing. I’m 29. Although my husband will generally ensure I am first, that people aren’t bashing me, that I’m away from the road etc.

So maybe it’s more that they’re unsure whether they’re meant to do it for strangers anymore?

I am a man. I was brought up with what used to be described as manners. I used to always hold the door open for a lady, or offer my seat on buses, trains etc. I didn't do this for any reason other than I was taught that it was polite. Certainly not for any reason associated with women being weaker in any way.

Unfortunately, I do it a good deal less these days as I have been on the receiving end of @WalterdelaMare 's tongue far too often.

I suppose that one could debate whether such manners originated somewhere sexist, and maybe there is some truth to that. It isn't how I was brought up to view the world though.

Edited to add, it may not have been WalterdelaMare, but certainly someone of similar views.

I assume the Ladies first etc is a way of men trying to guarantee they won't hurt us? "This one is temporarily not a risk to be around." Except it doesn't work that way.

Men are stronger as a sex class. Individual men may not be stronger than individual women. But I couldn't pick up and move or shove a man my size the way it happens to me in train stations during rush hour.

I’m in Ireland too and would say this is pretty normal, in the “after you” kind of way. Not patronising, just polite.
I do have to actively teach my 13yo son to step out of the way when we are walking along a path rather than barge through (which he does, but he’s learning). So sounds like I'm the Irish mammy who gives him a clip around the ear if I see him do it!!

I originally adopted the tactic because I was working in a town with a large and expensive private boys' school. At lunchtime, the entitled shits pupils enjoyed lording it over the riff raff in the high street. You'd think they'd be taught better manners, but it appears not.

At church this morning our bell ringer and I walked up together, he waved me through the door with a doff of his cap and said "Ladies first". He is a true gentleman, in his 90's, and has impeccable manners. I would take a "ladies first" from him forever. He refuses to call me by my first name - always a cheery "good morning Mrs Xxx"

I accept that he is of a different generation - it doesn't feel patronising or misogynistic in the slightest coming from him.

I would always hold a door open for anyone, would always say "after you" and accept the same gestures in return as based in politeness and good manners.