Do some reform voters not realise what the definition of racism is?

[Workingclasslass]

Is anybody else listening to LBC right now? On a particular show? I have just heard a lady say I’m going to vote reform I am not racist but on a recent visit to my friend in hospital in London there was too many brown faces about I didn’t see any white people that’s why I am voting reform but I am not racist.
Seriously, are these people absolutely deluded because I’d have more respect for them if they actually openly admitted they were racist

Did I say all? Nope but there was a lady on question time to audience it does seem a bit of a pattern

Not really- I think culture shifts fairly slowly- our current Christmas is pretty Victorian. Cricket obsession seems to me to be quite Edwardian.

The spices we think of as Christmassy are pretty old- easily Tudor times I think.

Beer, I don’t know why we ended up with mild and bitter, where other countries seem to be more lager based. I love a German Weissbier myself, but wouldn’t swap it for our ales.

Can I point out that I haven’t said that brown faces spoil England? I actually said we’re traditionally pretty diverse. I was wondering whether you can vote reform without being racist.

There’s a lot of sweeping rhetoric at the moment, people being categorised as one thing or another which I don’t find helpful.

Far right, racist, transphobic, bigoted- all thrown about to shut people down.

@Workingclasslass

I’d have more respect for you if you actually openly admitted they were all racist!! 😉

I’d really miss it if everywhere got the same. I enjoy travel, not that I go far these days. If everywhere is the same, what’s the point?

Good point very good point I don’t think all are but I think there’s a hell of a lot that are including this lady on question time who doesn’t believe in taking any asylum seekers very nice person not https://www.yahoo.com/news/time-audience-member-reacts-woman-221518089.html

Understood but my real point is that what most people spout on about in terms of being disintively English aren't unique to England. Plus Englishness is so often used as an excuse for exclusion and 'othering' groups of people.

Reform voters are generally thick as pig shit, OP, so that explains this woman’s thinking.

Sometimes I don’t think it’s as simple as that I think some people are generally quite nasty also very angry and I think they think by blaming other people it makes the problems better but it will not

Reform has quickly gathered pace recently because of the Goverments huge failings regarding a number of things which I'm not going to list before it starts a bun fight.

Is the U.K racists? Are all reform voters racists? No they are not. They are just people fed up with the old Government and the new one. There is no one else to shelter them. Will reform save them? No. Its just basically a pressure value and farages LTD company who he will sell to the highest bidder. Its not actually a real party with voting rights

Unmanaged immigration and I'm talking about legal immigration too - where people to come to Uni to study and bring their families - has had disastrous effects on communities - and yes the landscape has changed. Its disingenuous to say that it hasnt.

"Far right, racist, transphobic, bigoted- all thrown about to shut people down."

No - it's because the far right actually is having a resurgence and because many people are xenphobic, racist and transphobic and feel increasingly relaxed about putting those qualities on display.

Right, but people using Englishness as an excuse for exclusion and othering, doesn’t mean that there is no English culture, and that it isn’t worth retaining- not preserving, as noted it will change anyway- but valuing and maintaining what makes England distinctive.

I’m saying England, but I mean the various traditions and cultures around the UK. I’m Welsh. While not every Welsh person sings and plays the harp, and certainly doesn’t like lava bread, they are welsh traditions I’d like to see kept. While not actually having to eat Lava bread myself. 🤢

My point actually is that just because racist people jump on certain things and use them as dog whistles, doesn’t mean that only racist people want to discuss those issues.

A PP mentioned Sharia law.
Animal welfare has traditionally been higher in the uk than many other countries. Hence concern about Halal meat.

"where people to come to Uni to study and bring their families - has had disastrous effects on communities"

No it hasn't.

London has the best hospitals, the best schools and fantastic universities. We have a thriving economy. We also have large numbers of foreign workers and foreign students, who are making a contribution to our culture and our economy.

The parts of the country where people are struggling the most are overwhelmingly areas with low levels of migration. Not university towns.

You are 100% absolutely correct. The facts people are like boiling frog. You don’t know that the water is getting hot around you until it’s too late.
The direction of travel is that we are going to the right people are saying stuff out loud on the radio and even in question time audience that they would not have said years ago I know that there was a time they did say it maybe back in the 70s and 80s but previously after that we were getting better. We are now going back again to a society that seems to doesn’t give a shit what they say.
I have put a link to a video of a woman last night sorry the other night on question time saying about how she doesn’t think there should be any asylum seekers in this country. The thing is like at some point you wouldn’t say that but now people are just openly saying it and that’s the difference and that’s what people like Nigel Farage Donald Trump have allowed people to do.

Yes we are experiencing a resurgence of regressive thinking- a rise in authoritarianism, the decay of women’s rights, and probably xenophobia. I believe it’s recognised as something communities do when they are under pressure- circling the wagons, stamping out dissent.

That doesn’t mean that there aren’t pressing issues that need to be discussed.
Managing that without shutting people down is important.

We have a huge issue with political debate at the moment. Polarising people because they don’t agree with you is also othering and exclusionary.

"Managing that without shutting people down is important. "

You mean challenging people's xenophobia, racism and misogyny without acknowledging that they're being xenophobic, racist and sexist? In order not to hurt their feelings presumably.

"the decay of women’s rights"

What are you referring to?

Because as far as I'm aware women have more rights than ever before - to equal pay, maternity leave, protection against rape in marriage, protection against coercive control.

Not arguing that we don't also have a problem with women's poverty and access to affordable childcare, but I suspect this isn't what you're referring to.

Racism is hate towards person with another skin colour and this working both ways
Hating Muslims is islamphobia not racism

"Polarising people because they don’t agree with you is also othering and exclusionary."

I think you'll find that most people who object to expressions of racism & xenophobia don't do so because they 'don't like people disagreeing with them' but because they find it them ethically objectionable. I don't know why you'd want to frame this response as petulance other than because you want to discredit the motives of people on the left.

"Hating Muslims is islamphobia not racism"

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia

It's usually both.

The reason to have Islamophobia is usually racism

No is not

I think Afghanistan and USA are pretty stunning demonstrations of the rolling back of women’s rights.
I think women may be more impacted by current healthcare and social care issues, but that’s a bit more tenuous.
Women are usually more impacted by poverty- which is increasing- but they are less likely to be homeless and living on the streets, so I’d not want to be definitive.

@izimbra you are demonstrating perfectly my reference to having a discussion without shutting people down with accusations of racism etc.

The things I have said are not in themselves racism and xenophobia. Anymore than wanting single sex spaces and fair sport are transphobic.

I am not racist and xenophobic. Or transphobia- though if I were to hold my hand up to any of them, that’s the one I’m closest to. The impact of trans activism on children and on LGB rights has been awful.

It's pretty obvious from the type of candidates Reform attracts that they're racist. Some of them were pretty open about it. I'm sure some were affiliated with the BNP and other far right groups.

Muslim bashing, which I associate with racism, is very open now.

Oh, I assumed we were talking about the UK, because that's what the OP was about.

"you are demonstrating perfectly my reference to having a discussion without shutting people down with accusations of racism etc."

You think that if someone is being racist or xenophobic we shouldn't acknowledge this? Why?

I'd say framing someone's objection to xenophobia/racism as nothing more than 'objecting to people disagreeing with you' is pretty unhelpful and not conducive to an adult debate.

"The impact of trans activism on children and on LGB rights has been awful."

I only know three transgender people, who all transitioned in their teens. They're doing ok as adults. Are these the people who you think have been victimised by 'trans activism'?

My daughter, two of my nieces and my nephew are gay. How has their quality of life and safety been damaged by transgender people and their allies?

"Or transphobia- though if I were to hold my hand up to any of them, that’s the one I’m closest to."

But well done in acknowledging your transphobia.