Strange question involving prison and orthodox Jews.

[sashh]

So I had a strange dream last night, I often have strange dreams but I woke up with this question.

What do Orthodox Jewish prisoners do when it is Shabbat?

Can they light candles? What happens with lights if they are automatic? Are they allowed wine?

TIA

There's a BBC documentary about Jews in prison , well coming out of prison... https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00c50tc#:~:text=The%20story%20of%20ultra%2Dorthodox,as%20an%20observant%20Hasidic%20Jew.

An article about the rabbis. Might be if interest?
www.thejc.com/life-and-culture/revealed-the-inside-story-of-the-prison-rabbis-neq9j0uk

I don’t know but I know they have their own rabbi

I’m Jewish but not Orthodox. I would imagine it’s similar as for other faiths. I can’t imagine they would have a personal supply of Shabbat candles and be allowed to light them, but as part of collective prayer, I imagine the rabbi or cantor (music leader) would light them. Or if they were truly on their own (I cannot imagine there is a load of Orthodox Jews in prison anywhere other than possibly Israel!), they could get away with battery powered candles. Wine, no, but like with communion, I doubt prison priests dole out wine. They would just use kosher grape juice, same as anyone else who can’t or won’t drink wine.

I think the more complicated bit would be access to truly kosher food. I imagine it have to be source from a supplier, not cooked on site, which sounds like a ballache. And all the daily prayer (Orthodox Jews pray at specific times throughout the day and ideally you need a certain number to do it) and observing rest on Shabbat. They would not flip a light switch for instance. The really strict ones will not tear toilet roll, so need special pre-torn Shabbat toilet roll. That probably gives you a reputation of being annoyingly difficult or worse getting special treatment within the prison hierarchy.

That article was fascinating, thank you for sharing.

Or rather the local rabbi will visit them. My brother is a rabbi and does this. I don’t know that there’s ever a rabbi especially for a prison.

My BiL was not a rabbi but he used to do prison visits to Jewish prisoners both here and in the States.

Wow.

30 mins and answers and further reading, thank you.

And no I don't think there are many Orthodox Jews in prison.

Apparently the number is growing.

Norman Parker, a Jewish (not orthodox) double murderer who wrote 'Parkhurst Tales' and its sequels, writes of the prison chaplain arranging for a local Rabbi to visit him every other Saturday.

@fanaticalfairy that article was fascinating, thank you.

I know no one is above crime but my mind just went "Are there Orthodox Jews in prison?" I wonder what crimes they committed? To me, it's sort of like thinking about the Amish in prison.

It's not something I ever had to think about or come across, fortunately or unfortunately.

I don't know much about Judaism to be honest but I know that in some communities some crimes are dealt with within that community and may never be reported.

Yes this is exactly why I had those thoughts above because I know/thought those groups deal with their crimes within.

There are Amish in prison.

https://eu.coshoctontribune.com/story/news/local/coshocton-county/2022/10/12/amish-man-ohio-sentenced-prison-sex-crimes-against-young-girl/69547316007/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-amish-face-unfamiliar-life-in-prison/

Ah yes I can quite believe/accept people in these groups are in prison - it makes sense of course for that to happen; I just oddly never thought of it or remembered seeing it besides them dealing with their own sins/crimes within their community.

Thanks! Looks really interesting and that's this evening's viewing sorted!

Really interesting article and sorry for getting it wrong in my post above!

Thanks for sharing the article. Really interesting read with my morning coffee.

Thanks for the article, that was interesting!

This is possibly a decade out of date, but Kosher food arrives from the prison catering company basically as ready meals that are microwaved and kept sealed until given to the prisoner. There was only one hot meal a day, with cereal for breakfast and sandwiches/crisps for lunch or tea. They got sealed sandwiches rather than prison kitchen made sandwiches, but I wouldn’t say they were any better/worse.

It meant they also couldn’t get seconds if there was leftover food in the servery, as none of it was kosher, but if there was every an additional kosher meal/sandwiches (where a prisoner who’d been ordered for had been transferred in the last 24 hours) they’d get that. But it happened rarely.

You're all welcome!

Assuming you meant the one I linked 😂😂

A bit of a tangent....What about vegetarians and vegans in prisons, I wonder if they get catered for

I am sure they do along with Halal or whatever else is needed

Yes, of course they do.

Same a gluten-free I suppose?

I heard a fascinating interview with a guy who had spent a long time in prison. He said that you should always say you are vegan as you get much better and healthier food.*

He was a campaigner for prison food reform and said that being vegan was pretty much the only way to get vegetable.

*same with airline food too.