Dd has been cheating with homework

[Anotherdayanotherbattle]

Dd has been struggling mentally. And also with school and homework. It got to the point she was getting really upset, frustrated etc. Mentally she's touched on that she wants to self harm but has not actually done it.

I contacted the school who have put counselling in place for her which starts next week.

I had also mentioned that dd is struggling academically. So they referred to senco . They are looking at possible dyslexia.
And also doing a referral for asd.

Also this evening the school rang me about home work time table . They said they could give dd a home work time table more suited to her. On the time table it says travel home x time... home work x time for 2 hours then it says down time. Then bedtime. I suggested to simplify it. Ie just say home work 2 hrs . And leave it at that. School then said to me the home work should not take 2 hours it's just a guide .

When I got of the phone I asked dd how long does your homework take she said 40 mins because I cheat.

So her homework is not going to reflect that she's struggling.

With the maths if you don't get such a percentage right it's classed as not complete and they get a detention. So I think dd has been cheating to avoid it.

I said to dd we need to be honest about what she's been doing because they don't know her true level. Ir do they via school lessons? Dd has begged me not to say anything. But im not sure that's a good idea . I don't think she's dine it for the sake of cheating but to cover up het struggle. I don't want to get het into trouble. But also she can't keep doing it.

Dd is 14 in year 10.

And it still takes her 40 mins? Could she be trying and then looking them up when she can’t work out the answers?

2 hours is ridiculous, they need down time just like we all do. All day at school then 2 more hours of work?? It’s just nuts. I agree with PP there should be reasonable adjustments made, not punishments!

Many of the online maths homeworks are like this.

I'm an ex teacher, and I always just set some questions on them.

Many of the other teachers say you have to keep doing until you either get them all right or get 90%. For some kids this just isn't doable.

Let her cheat on those.

Honestly it's just not worth it.

I would suggest that you ask her maths teacher to reduce the level of her Sparx Hw. If she has been googling the answers it will generate harder and harder questions. Her teacher can manually reduce her Sparx level

...maths if you don't get such a percentage right it's classed as not complete and they get a detention.
Am I getting this right - so if you struggle with maths, rather than help you understand better you get detention? That's crazy! Surely it's done if all questions are answered, not if you get a certain %age.

I think homework is highly divisive.
Those who advocate homework presume all pupils are equal and have the resources to complete it at home,without the pressure of caring duties ,chaotic homes and other responsibilities.
Homework apps are great if the pupils has a tablet or smart phone but if there isn't a computer at home we're creating another generation of learners who quickly become disenfranchised with learning.
Homework used to be called 'prep' and ensured pupils at boarding schools had work to do after formal lessons.
When I first started teaching the parents of a brother and sister made a complaint about the lack of homework because they wanted two hours of 'alone time' every evening after they returned from work. I wasn't the teacher of these siblings but I realised at that point homework is just contrived to please parents and Ofsted.

She's looking up the answers.

A policy that says that if you get a certain % wrong, it's marked as incomplete is absolutely going to encourage this from even the most conscientious student who has tried their hardest but isn't able to get enough correct.

I personally do not agree with homework. I think downtime is important. I don't think a couple of hours downtime is enough. The world is a stressful place for teenagers and adults. I think they should cone home kick their shoes of and relax and recharge.

It's not inconsequential.

If she's looking up the answers to get it out of the way asap, she's not actually learning the concepts, which means she won't be able to progress with the class, creating greater stress - and then at formal assessment, she falls apart/gets caught cheating/has a breakdown/does something to try and get out of the exam.

It's outrageous!

My children never spent more than half an hour a few times week and both did very well at school.

Surely the whole point of homework is to give the child some questions to answer themselves, so that the teacher can monitor their strengths & weaknesses and can give additional support where necessary.

Deliberately setting up the homework to punish students who try their best but get answers wrong is absolutely ridiculous, and is positively encouraging them to cheat so they don't get into trouble.

She obviously doesn't get the concept. So school should ditch the homework and support her more in school.

Is it sparx maths?

Yes it is.

It felt like a lot that my DD was being set on there too. I think after something like 3 goes and incorrect answers it suggested an alternative?
The theory is sound, I think - the questions are accompanied by videos that work through a similar problem so that you can then apply it. However, if you just don’t understand it, there’s no substitute for a teacher (or other knowledgeable person) who can explain it to you.
She distinctly expresses a preference for homework on paper rather than apps etc - I think she associates it all with Covid and home learning.

I came on to say this too.

That's an awful attitude. It completely focuses on attainment rather than effort. Dumping a kid in detention doesn't help them learn.

We suffered Spanx (it's pants) maths when autistic, dyslexic DS was in y7. It's foul. It has godawful "book checks" where you have to input the answer from previous questions which therefore means that you have to write it down and submit electronically. DS can't cope with working simultaneously on paper and the computer, so would guess. Guess wrong and the bastarding system will UNDO your correct answers.

It used to take him hours. He's very strong at maths. The maths wasn't the issue, it was the format. He was determined to plough on that way though. If he did get stuck on something, he struggled with the formats of the videos (he's sensitive to things like voices)

It's a cruel, ablist system.

Set unsuitable homework, get unsuitable outcomes 🤷‍♀️
The format of Spanx reduces it to a battle to beat the system.

Talk to school. Let them know that Spanx is causing her additional distress.

Thank goodness his school stopped using it. DS2 would have been far less resiliant and it could have ruined his love of maths.

Two hours a night is way too much for any kid. One hour max if not less.

If they don't understand the work well enough they get detention. And that, ladies and gentlemen, sums up the prevailing attitude to any pupils who struggle on our schools today. I'm so sick of it.

I am just seeing my third teenager through year 11 and I can promise you, lots of secondary schools operate this policy. Frequently on sparks maths. Or for vocab tests for languages ( most are forced to do languages even if they really struggle to do the work). They are hauled out of class and put in Iso for not wearing their jumper correctly ( or any variation of the classic 'uniform crackdown' violation). Our secondary schools are in crisis, funding is a huge problem but it is all massively exacerbated by mediocre, middle-aged arseholes trying to batter the pupils into conforming to their own limited, small-minded idea of what a 'good' child is. My kids are all bright but none of them are conformist. Like me. We are all ND.
If your children are 'easy conformists' ten you'll not have trouble. If they aren't, they will be battered and made to feel like failures. I work with teens who have been massively let down by the mainstream system. Their histories still break my heart, even though I see the same problems caused by the same stupid policies time and time again.

DS is decent at maths. His whatsapp each weekend is full of screen shots from his mates "how do you do this sparks question".
Sparks sucks even if you are decent at maths. Let's her get through it in the easiest way possible!

How do they know she doesn't get it and needs further maths support if she's looking up the answers online?

I'm pretty sure any decent teacher would know she was actually struggling in class. Unless they based their assessments just on homework.

2 hours is totally normal at that age due to GCSEs looming. At DD’s school that would’ve been considered the minimum! Not saying it’s right but it’s the way things are.

Wow - my kids are a little bit younger - I had no clue that they can be punished for struggling to pass/complete a certain amount of maths homework, its honestly not something I've heard of before - what happens if you tell the school that you disagree and you don't allow them to do the detention? (assuming its after school)