Harshita Brella Murder already had domestic protection order against husband what’s the point if not protecting women?

[Littlemissgobby]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/woman-body-found-car-boot-london-harshita-brella-095739979.html
After reading that this poor lady that was found murdered in a car in London actually had a domestic protection order against her husband back in September. However, he was able to get her and obviously murder her surely that has to be something better than this to protect these women. I don’t understand why if that was the case she wasn’t putting a refuge somewhere away so that he couldn’t find her.?
I don’t understand domestic abuse I’ve never had it issued to me. I’m not a person who has ever had a partner that has had that so I don’t understand how this works but surely having had an order for the partner to stay away. How quickly would the police have come? I understand that she had to do the same thing for her workplace.?
But the other issue I have with this story is it quotes that neighbours were hearing arguments where the woman sounded scared yet nobody thought oh I’ll go and have a look and see what’s going on, at least put my ring doorbell on so I could capture something. I don’t get why people don’t want to get involved. I don’t know why I hear it on and read it on this group. How people say it’s none of your business well, maybe things should be our business more. ?

Regarding neighbours not intervening, it reminds me of the Sara Sharif case - similar was heard by neighbours but they didn’t report it.

There seems to be a general increase in lawlessness and I suspect many people are fearful of retribution if they get involved.

This is IMO in part because the police are so hopeless at actually doing anything, so actually getting a conviction and that person removed from your community is fairly unlikely.

I generally support the police but it does seem like they have amazingly little authority to actually do anything - and tbh I query if they even care. Sara Sharif’s dad being a great example… multiple cases of girlfriends reporting him to police for assault etc, nothing ever happened. If he hadn’t killed his daughter he would still be doing it.

It was 22 yrs ago but the police were useless when I called them after my then H had gone for me and 2 of my children with a knife. They sided with him and said it would all blow over.

I had to rehouse my children whilst I waited for emergency housing.

An injunction can't stop someone doing anything; it's just a piece of paper. What it does is attach consequences to the behaviour, so that contact then becomes a criminal offence which can be actioned. If he was issued with a DVPO there would be nothing physically to stop him going there and harming her, unfortunately.

As for the question of 'why wasn't she put in a refuge', a lot of people who are offered refuge can't or don't want to go. It also might have been the case that no one told her about refuge, no one got her DA support, etc etc etc.

It's sad but in cases like these, the victim often hasn't had IDVA support so doesn't know how to navigate the system or how to advocate for themselves. Combine that with a police force who may not have properly actioned previous reports and complaints, and the DVPO really is just a useless piece of paper.

(Am an IDVA)

You would have thought after getting the court order she would have been given help. It seems like not enough help is given shame it has to be just done by charities

I quite agree. In the area where I work, the police automatically make a referral to our service in DV cases (provided the victim consents), but we never hear a thing from the courts. The DVPO will have had to have been applied for by the police in the first place, so hopefully she was offered a referral to services who could have discussed refuge with her, but she may not have engaged, or services may not have been quick enough. It's horrible.

DVPOs are often sought by police without the support of the victim- it could be than an incident occurred where violence is suspected but not enough to prove, victim is not supportive and won't make a statement. DVPN given then DVPO sought through the court and issued.
As I said many victims don't actually want these and are angry that police have put in application to the court because they want to continue the relationship.
Police cannot force people to accept referrals for support, cannot make people move into refuges, many people don't want to.
We don't know the full circumstances, it's a horrible tragic thing to have happened.

The help is done by charities because they are commissioned by local authorities to provide services. That aspect of it isn't a problem, as long as victims are referred promptly when they should be.

I'd have to disagree with you. Having worked in domestic abuse units it's the cps who decide on whether to charge
The number of times I have arranged for a refuge place only for the victim to refuse to go or goes then returns is high.
As for any orders made..they cannot keep victims safe . They usually have a power of arrest attached if suspect breaches but the only way to keep victims safe is by supporting police action ( which many dont) and suspect getting locked up.

I am no fan of the police, the CPS or most institutions, but (a) a court order not to do something only works if the recipient agrees to adhere to it and the other party does too - it's not uncommon for victims of DV to maintain or restart contact with their abuser unfortunately; so (b) it might be better not to speculate or lay blame at anyones doorstep until we have a clearer idea of what happened. Neither the police nor the courts are personal bodyguards - there may have been failings but we don't know that yet.

@TheSilkWorm it's not done by a charity in our local authority, they do it themselves.

What @EmmaMaria said

Part of the problem is the lack of police around.

I called the police on at 8pm on Saturday night to a flat in our street that I happen to know (by chance) is a scatter flat used to temporarily house DV victims as there was a man battering the door and shouting and screaming.

We have been home all weekend because of illness and I haven't yet seen the police show up (and most of the time the police or delivery people come into our street they use our drive to turn on so we tend to notice) It's not the first time they haven't shown up and that is an address that should be high on their radar.

Terrible I know lack of p9ice listened to radio yesterday saying how the justice system is collapsing under 14 years of under investment

I've been following this story. I was so disappointed to see that Northamptonshire Police have referred themselves to the IOPC. My immediate thoughts were, oh fuck, not again.

I come from Northamptonshire but have lived in London for nearly 30 years.

I think the whole set-up is failing women and girls. The whole shebang.

I hope they catch this scrote, jail him and throw away the key. Poor Harshita.

The IOPC are about as independent from the police as my left foot is from me.

An IDVA doesn't usually work for a charity- at least in my area there are 12 IDVAs in the local authority domestic abuse team and 2 attached to the Police who go out with response officersrs if needed.
If poor Harshita Bella had a DVPO that's because for whatever reason the Police report wasn't being progressed, I don't know whether that's because she didn't feel able or because the Police made a NFA decision. The DVPO is only when there aren't bail conditions in place.
Spaces in Refuge are so uncommon and women often have to move far away and leave everything behind. I wouldnt want to do that. The DVPO/bail cons/non mol is only useful if the victim rings the Police. Harshita might have been given help or she might have been absolutely missed or not received a call yet, she might have not wanted to work with an IDVA or there might have been a false sense of security from Professionals because of there being a DVPO for 28 days. We don't know at the moment. For me the issue is more around why are men so violent and why do they abuse, terrorise and murder their partners and wives.

I'm sure that's the case. But in many areas it's commissioned out to charities. It doesn't mean they are doing the work on the basis of goodwill or that they aren't professionals, which seemed to be the OP's implication.

@TheSilkWorm sorry, I was trying to agree with you but did it very badly.

I agree, it's definitely not left to charities - it can be by local authority employees or a commissioned service.

It's a mandatory IOPC referral after a person dies when they have had recent police contact. Don't read anything into that.

unfortunately police can do everything they can to prevent things like this from happening but still fail. Not all dv victims want help, want to end the relationships or are prepared to accept that they are victims at all. Policing domestic violence is a very complex area. It's not as simple as people seem to think, we can't just force people to do what they are told.

It's so sad that she was excited about coming to England but then was having a miserable time due to being hit.
It said on itv news that Harshita's mother only met the new husband for the first time on the day of the arranged marriage for 30 minutes. I wonder what sort of research is done on the person before the marriage is arranged. I'm not criticising them as it's their culture and obviously people can meet someone who seems lovely and ends up abusive in any culture. I'm just wondering whether they could spend a bit more time together before the marriage so they get to know the person. Her sister said Harshita was quite dependent on her. She sounded vulnerable

People did speak up, a concerned member of the public contacted the police regarding her.

The full details aren't known OP. Domestic violence is complicated made even more so by lack of police training, lack of resources and often lack of cooperation from victims.

Harshita may have not wanted her husband prosecuted, didn't know what to do or refused support. We don't know.

People don't want to intervene because they're afraid OP. If you live next door to a horribly violent man and yours is the only party wall and you report him to the police, who do you think he's going to think reported him? Yep - you! And do you think the police will do anything to protect you? Of course they bloody won't! They don't even protect the victim (as demonstrated by this horrific case). Instead, they waste time arresting people for posting things online, despite us having free speech laws in this country. One single complaint about something you've written on Twitter is enough to have the police knocking on your door and taking you to the station for questioning. But you live next door to a homicidal maniac, or your car is stolen off your driveway? Good luck!

They don't even protect the victim (as demonstrated by this horrific case).

Again, I will say that I am not a fan of the police, but they had no opportunity to protect her. They are not a private bouncer service, and according to her own family she went back to him because the last time they spoke to her she told them that she was cooking his dinner. There are all sorts of reasons why DV victims maintain or restart contact with their abuser. But much as we may deplore women (and some men) feeling that way, the police are not in a position to cart her off "for her own good" even if they know she is in contact with him.

We don't know what has happened. Let's apportion blame when we do?

Oh and yes, people don't intervene for all sorts of reasons, and not just because the police may not be able to protect them - it also isn't uncommon for people who intervene to be attacked by the victim of the abuse.

This is a complex world and a complex issue - there are not the simple solutions available where black hats are obvious and white hats are the saviours.

Neighbours report, police visit, victim denies anything or leave and goes straight back

Other people can only do so much and as you can't just go 'right you are coming with me we will lock you up forever'

There is no answer

@1clavdivs it's a shame that film Leaving isn't freely available in the public domain as it is such a powerful work into how leaving is just so hard for victims. I saw it first probably 15 yrs ago at a dv conference and just hearing the music still takes me straight back into that darkened training room and the deafening silence after it finished as everyone found it so impactful.

also Zoe Lodricks excellent work on trauma bonds and the psychology of why victims stay, even when on the face of it they have all the support they need to leave.