Harshita Brella Murder already had domestic protection order against husband what’s the point if not protecting women?

[Littlemissgobby]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/woman-body-found-car-boot-london-harshita-brella-095739979.html
After reading that this poor lady that was found murdered in a car in London actually had a domestic protection order against her husband back in September. However, he was able to get her and obviously murder her surely that has to be something better than this to protect these women. I don’t understand why if that was the case she wasn’t putting a refuge somewhere away so that he couldn’t find her.?
I don’t understand domestic abuse I’ve never had it issued to me. I’m not a person who has ever had a partner that has had that so I don’t understand how this works but surely having had an order for the partner to stay away. How quickly would the police have come? I understand that she had to do the same thing for her workplace.?
But the other issue I have with this story is it quotes that neighbours were hearing arguments where the woman sounded scared yet nobody thought oh I’ll go and have a look and see what’s going on, at least put my ring doorbell on so I could capture something. I don’t get why people don’t want to get involved. I don’t know why I hear it on and read it on this group. How people say it’s none of your business well, maybe things should be our business more. ?

I've just read that she went to the police and they put her in safe accommodation. She didn't like it there so resumed contact with her husband and the last time her sister spoke to her, she had invited her husband over to dinner.

Her family say that no support was provided for her but I don't know how long she was in the accommodation. Usually the police refer you to DV services, perhaps she didn't wait long enough to speak to them.

There isn't much the police can do if you choose to go back to your abuser. For the police to have put her in a hotel, they must have thought she was in danger.

Her family are saying the police didn't do enough.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/19/family-woman-dead-car-london-accuses-police-failing-protect-harshita-brella

Her family are saying the police didn't do enough.

With respect to the sister, this is the family who arranged a marriage for their daughter to somebody she did not know, and I am left wondering also how well they knew him. This is not how arranged marriages are supposed to work, although regrettably it happens all to often that a young woman is persuaded into marrying somebody that she does not know. There is often a very fine line between "arranged" and "forced" - all too often both young men and young women enter into marriages they do not want out of respect for their parents or fear of being seen to let their parents down. I see this all too often unfortunately. Much of the time, regardless of that, the marriages work out. There is something to be said about being more pragmatic about "love". But that doesn't mean that there are darker sides - and when young women leave these marriages it is often their own family who push and argue for them to go back and not bring shame on the family. It's easy to blame the police or the authorities or someone else entirely. It means you don't have to look at your own part in the events.

If the police put her in safe accommodation they didn't do nothing. Her sister described Harshita as "dependent" on her, and said she would often handle things for her sister when she was still in India according to the below article. It sounds like she was vulnerable and really the best thing would have been for her to return to her family. I'm not sure there are the resources for her to have been given a full time carer by the police. As an adult they couldn't stop her going back to her abusive dh.

www.itv.com/news/2024-11-19/harshita-brella-family-say-her-murderer-killed-a-thousand-dreams

With respect to the sister, this is the family who arranged a marriage for their daughter to somebody she did not know, and I am left wondering also how well they knew him

Not very well I don't think. It says in the above ITV article
"Her mother met Lamba for the first time for just half an hour, on the day of his arranged marriage to her daughter in India"

@EmmaMaria you may well be right in this case and the police can't really help if someone chooses to return to their abuser, but in so many other cases the police have failed to protect the victim.

I do feel that specialised services are often most appropriate for women who are from cultures other than white British. I'll never forget the way the police failed Banaz Mahmod and the horrific way her life ended.

I don't entirely agree. I think that we often assume the police have responsibilities that they not only don't have, but don't have the resources to manage. I see both sides here. The police are not really there to prevent crime or to offer protection services. There is much that could be improved about how they do what is their job - to solve crime and prepare evidence of crime - and some of that lies at their own door, some at the door of government and resources.

I would suggest that, in addition to more support for DV organisations, there is a need perhaps for a service that is there to protect those who need it. Not the police and not social workers - they have their own roles to play. It may still not be perfect, but if you take somebody to court because they owe you money, we have bailiff systems to enforce court orders etc to help you get your money back. Surely people are more important than money? Why not have a "protection service"? It might be a stand alone service, or a specific and seperate section of the police force. But a service whose design is to protect those who need protecting - not a "thin blue line" of officers who are stretched across far too many issues.

That said, even then many vulnerable people will return to, or get in contact with, their partners, for all sorts of reasons, but often simply because they want to believe them, and to believe in them. I recall supporting a young woman a long time ago whose family arranged a forced marriage because she was in a relationship with someone they disapproved of. Over an 18 month period, which included her being drugged and an attempt to take her out of the country in that state, and being locked in an attic room as a prisoner, she went back to her family three times before finally getting it. She had a great deal of support and had refuge places - but she still wanted to believe that her family would not do this to her despite all the eveidence to the contrary. In the end, most people strive to find the good in those they care for, even if it isn't there.

The police would have made it clear to her that as he's a student he could lose his visa status & as she's on a dependant visa she could lose her right to stay in the UK in the event of a divorce.

They probably even advised her to make arrangements to return to India and this might have scared her into meeting her husband again.

We've told local police over and over again that for Indian women in low security visas telling them 'to go back to India' creates more problems because there is already a social stigma of returning back divorced and on top of that they need to deal with losing their job security in the UK.

That's certainly a concern but I haven't seen that mentioned in the articles I've read. The one I linked said that she felt isolated and alone in the protected accommodation.

Her sister said that she felt as though she was being treated as a criminal and wasn't given any support. It doesn't mention her visa.

@EmmaMaria you mean like an IDVA service?

No. IDVA is an advocacy service. I mean something more akin to a "witness protection service" with literal protection staffing. A service that literally protects people who have court orders - more of a guardian angel. It's important that support services and advocacy services exist and are properly funded (and independant) but I think there is a case for protecting those most at risk. It won't catch every situation and every risk - nothing will. But at least it's a move towards supporting the most vulnerable.

@kaela100 The police would have made it clear to her that as he's a student he could lose his visa status & as she's on a dependant visa she could lose her right to stay in the UK in the event of a divorce.

I sincerely hope that isn't true - as in that they didn't tell her that. Whilst it is technically true - she could have lost her dependant visa - I know for a fact that the three fortces I have worked with make it clear that they provide detailed reports to support potential asylum claims if the woman wishes to go down that route. Returning to the hom,e country is not safe for all women in this situation, and that includes possibly not being safe in their own family or community. To be fair, they cannot promise a favourable outcome, but I do know of women who have been granted asylum on this basis.

@EmmaMaria India is not one of the countries a woman can claim asylum from in this situation.

They had this on Woman's Hour earlier

It’s easy to view this as a problem arising from arranged marriages but let’s face it, domestic violence isn’t limited to those whose marriages were arranged.

There was an in depth story on this on Ch4 news, including interviews with a charity that seeks to help women in this situation. They said one of the big problems was the lack of a support network - leaving women feeling isolated and increasing the risk they return to their abuser (and making it easier for abusers to coerce them into that).
The abuser in this case tried to stop Harshita contacting her family, a common theme of coercive control.

The charity’s aim was to create easily accessible support which would work in conjunction with police or court orders. It’s important women have ongoing support and reassurance - as well as practical help.
The police aren’t going to be able to do that. There needs to be proper funding for organisations that will.

One single complaint about something you've written on Twitter is enough to have the police knocking on your door and taking you to the station for questioning.

This isn’t true, though, is it?

Guest on WH said Lamba had been complaining to Harshitas father on the phone that she spent too much time talking to neighbours and Other People. She was barred from leaving the house on her own.

Also said her family were the ones telling her to leave him and they raised the alarm after not hearing from her for several days.

She was in the UK as a spouse after Lamba was already settled in the UK from 2022. I'm assuming that they thought "oh UK settled= good prospects"

No its ridiculous rhetoric designed to provoke. Domestic abuse is everywhere and it's incredibly complex to support, in general this is a fair and nuanced thread covering the complexities well but there's always someone seeking attention.

Appalling that she wasn’t treated as particularly vulnerable, having only fairly recently moved to the U.K. for an arranged marriage. She would have had very limited networks of support, maybe concerns about her immigration status, and likely cultural factors meaning she felt pressured to stay in the marriage.

What would treating her as particularly vulnerable have looked like?

Hard to say without knowing all the facts, of course. But I suppose things like: panic alarms, regular check-ins, referrals to specialist services like Karma Nirvana.

@DownThePubWithStevieNicks it's possible to do all of those things but the entire system is consent based and she had her own agency.

I know what you mean, although agency isn’t the word I’d use for a woman who was being controlled and abused by a husband she’d moved to the other side of the world to live with.

But yes, polices and other services couldn’t stop her going back to him.

She was placed in a refuge and was referred to DV services. The police also visited her several times. They arrested her husband, bailed him and had a 28 day protection order.

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-12/harshita-brella-cctv-appears-to-show-husbands-last-movements-before-body-found

Just seen this. He's still on the run. I hope they catch him soon.

Harshitas mother is claiming Indian plod haven't had a formal request from Northamptonshire plod yet to find him. He's thought to have left the UK
.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/harshita-brella-indian-found-dead-in-uk-had-told-family-her-husband-will-kill-her-101734061180531.html

Urrr,... They did put her in a refuge. She left and went to meet him.
What more would you have them do OP??