Branded a terrorist- Attack on free speech?!

[wavingfuriously]

BBC News - 'My daughter was branded a terrorist'
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgmvxgkwg17o

this is crazy!

The article failed to mention that they smashed the gates with their car, and assaulted and injured security and police with sledgehammers. Half truths are worse than lies. Journalism at its lowest. Here is the article from August: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mnnje4wlro

What was the 'equipment' that was damaged? What was its intended use?

You believe that's somehow justification for assault and bodily harm?

No I don't. And I think if they were objecting to violence (in the Middle East) then using violence (in the Uk) totally undermines their point, and they should face the consequences.

But the report reads like they went into an office and smashed up peoples computers

The WPC hit in the spine with a sledgehammer is really lucky. (typed from my wheelchair)
The thugs that did that don't deserve to be out on the streets deciding who they can harm in their demands for political policy changes, any more than those trying to burn asylum seekers out of hotels.

Met police are right now literally tearing up loads of things people take for granted will be provided to keep people safe, because of the cuts coming and the thin blue line is about to get an awful lot thinner in who it can and can't protect. It's across the board from politicians to people who've dared to call SS on child abusers. Keeping public order and safety is going to rely on post activity sentencing rather than pro active prevention, more and more.

I'm not a particular lover of the police, (with apologies to all decent ones) but they don't deserve to risk being crippled because some middle class protestors expect to be treated differently and have different 'rights' from any other criminals breaking and entering and vandalizing during home invasions, refuge invasions, or business invasions.

Many horrible things are happening en mass across the world, and bringing more violence to it because of your political viewpoint about it helps no one.

The same message needs to be sent to them and their parents as those who would terrorize refugees. You will be treated as exactly what you are: Thugs who seek to terrorize to try to enforce your opinions.

Shouldn't the daughter be granted bail now that she has not been charged with a terror offence?

[Zoe was eventually charged with criminal damage, violent disorder and aggravated burglary and denied bail. Her trial is not set to take place until November 2025.
....
Although Zoe was not charged with a terror offence, she and the other activists arrested at the same time were denied bail because the Crown Prosecution Service claimed there might still be a terror link. It was Zoe's first alleged offence.]

What's changed about the threat she presents to society? How have which charges she's ultimately facing, changed that?

She and others wanted to bring fear and terror that night through violence.
The fact they've got away with not being charged with an act of terrorism, and are facing lesser charges than they might have, doesn't change what they were doing or the level of violence they used to try and achieve it, or the fact it was premeditated, planned, and resourced. She and Fatema Zainab rightly face inevitable jail time alongside the rest of the organized perpetrators.

The young male who set up a roadblock to find non White drivers sought to cause fear and terror that day through potential threatened violence. He also didn't get charged with an act of terrorism, and faced violent disorder charges. His actions aren't believed to have been premeditated. He rightly faced inevitable jail time alongside the rest of the very loosely organized perpetrators.
Would you find him someone who should be out on bail prior to serving an inevitable sentence?

What's different about his trying to force change through 'violent direct action political activism' from hers?

Do you think starting uni and being in halls right now lapping up attention while she waits to go to prison, would be a good thing for society?

Do you think him being out and about in his local community encouraging his political beliefs while he awaited sentencing would have been a good thing for society?

There is evidence of automatic guilt of both through video footage. All they can offer is mitigations about the beliefs behind the crimes.

The crime she's committed is likely to attract a sentence of at least a year even as a well represented MC girl from a good life.
Why should she be out and about free to commit more crimes of a similar nature, or encouraging others to do so, before she goes down for it? It wasn't a minor offense they committed.

Keeping her and Zaineb compulsorily away from being able to cause or incite violent public unrest while they wait for sentencing, is preferable for society in the state it's in, and they may well walk away with easier time served on remand. Zoe and Zaineb are likely to be out before Jake is.

Why is this not being regarded as a race hate crime? These brats basically attacked an Israeli firm that has no ties with Israeli government simply because they are israeli. Racist pair of cunts!

Free SPEECH. Not freedom to destroy property , terrify other people and assault them.

@BlueSilverCats exactly! I've no sympathy with them.

Elbit Systems is the largest Israeli military manufacturer and produces 85% of the Israel Defense Force's land-based equipment as well as 85% of the drones used by the Israeli Air Force.Elbit advertises that its equipment has been battle-tested by the IDF in operations in Gaza and the West Bank. Elbit's drones have been reportedly involved in multiple incidents involving civilian deaths.

I wouldn't say that a firm that supplies the Israeli government with so much military equipment has no links to the Israeli government? It really doesn't look like they randomly picked that company just because they are Israeli, it's not like they produce dresses or something, they produce arms that are used to kill innocent civilians. I don't agree with what they did but your post is misleading.

Ok, maybe racist was the wrong word. I am guessing that had a Palestinian firm being making weapons for their forces then they would have done the same to them. Fairs fair, after all.

"The protests aren't working, mum"

But nothing we do can work. The UK has no power to stop Hamas. I do support peaceful protests but I think this is futile.

This is a totally nonsensical argument. This is like saying a stubbed toe is the same as an amputation.

Destroying millions of homes, displacing an entire population, killing tens of thousands of people with advanced weaponry isn't the same kind of thing as criminal damage at a weapons firm involved in providing arms to commit war crimes.

She sounds like the worst kind of violent thug, one high on her own moral righteousness.

You have a point that those two things aren't in any way equivalent, but the Israeli government is not the one to target. Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist cells are the aggressors, this "protest" acheives nothing of value. The Israeli government could maybe be persuaded to a peace deal, or surrender land to Palestine, but the second one is unlikely anyway, and the first one won't be achieved by destroying little businesses miles away. It's just more destruction. Pointless.

"Free Speech"
Is not the same as
"Free to perform acts of violence and vandalism if your reason for doing so is political"

Free speech is limited to speech and nonviolent legal protests.

Violence and vandalism is rightly illegal even if you are doing it for political reasons.

Using violence rather than reason to gain a political objective is called "warfare" when done by the state and "terrorism" when done by individuals.

Yes it was right for her to be "branded a terrorist". She was using terrorism.

There is a sense in the UK, I've noticed of Israelis and Jewish people being almost scapegoated for what's going on in Gaza, even though it's nothing to do with us. Same old, same old, I guess!

She has every right to stand outside with a placard handing out leaflets, that is freedom of speech and peaceful protest.

But in fact it sounds like a violent action, thuggery at its worst, so I have no sympathy and she will get the book thrown at her.

The fact they are not granting bail suggests they have intelligence that at least suggests a potential terror/organised violence link, in this country bail is rarely refused other than for the most serious offences.

In the UK, no ordinary person can target Hamas or Hezbollah cells, but they can target weapons firms that are helping kill thousands of civilians, destroy an entire healthcare system, level a city. Even if you think Israeli strategic aims are justifiable (the destruction of Hamas), that doesn't mean that war crimes & crimes against humanity are justifiable to achieve those strategic aims.

This is also what the UN have concluded.

www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/10/un-commission-finds-war-crimes-and-crimes-against-humanity-israeli-attacks

Ordinary people don't criminally and violently attack or terrorise anyone to achieve political aims.

The use of terrorism legislation is totally disproportionate. We have seen legitimate protests branded this way by the right wing press and the government seem to be encouraging it, especially in relation to protests against Israel. Being charged with the specific offenses may well be legitimate and proportional but they would normally be granted bail and dealt with fairly and justly

You'd like to think that if you ram your way into a facility and batter police and security guards with sledgehammers it wouldn't be conflated around concerns about stymied legitimate protest.

What's terrifying is that these naive young people, with woefully little understanding of the situation in the middle east, or anything else for that matter, believe themselves to be so gifted with insight and morality that they embark upon violent and disgraceful actions and expect to get away with it. They have no ability to think critically and make no attempt to consider the consequences of their actions. They are seeped in their own self righteousness and are constantly validated by weak willed parents and other juvenile virtue signalers on social media. Repercussions may help this young woman grow up a little and should give other children and young people pause for thought when considering whether or not to violently express their childish dissatisfaction about issues they clearly don't understand.

I feel sorry for the mothers. They didn’t do this and have suffered the punishment of losing their very young adult daughters (only just out of childhood) for what is likely to be a significant period of time.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the young people concerned. They could easily have killed somebody during the ram raid and the use of weapons against ordinary people and the police is utterly abhorrent.

I just find it baffling how a young person can go from the mindset of sitting their A-Levels and heading to university to one day deciding to get involved in a violent attack on a commercial premises.

Then again, I believe that the pen is mightier than the protest and that they would have been far more effective by getting their education and working to achieve their political aims in different ways.