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VeritableChestnut · 11/11/2024 22:02

gamerchick · 11/11/2024 21:46

What appliances do you use that run off batteries?

So you're at work all day. Come home and do your normal doings in those short hours before bed. You're saying that we should just pop home at regular intervals during the day to spread out our usage?

Sounds like something out employers would be on board with.

I’m referring to storage batteries that store cheap rate electricity and/or are connected to solar panels.

No, I’m not suggesting that at all. However, there are plenty of households where there is someone in during the day, and where load shifting would be realistic and achievable.

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 07:32

VeritableChestnut · 11/11/2024 22:02

I’m referring to storage batteries that store cheap rate electricity and/or are connected to solar panels.

No, I’m not suggesting that at all. However, there are plenty of households where there is someone in during the day, and where load shifting would be realistic and achievable.

So the government is offering solar panels at some point? That would make more sense than use your electricity at other times or else we're going to charge you more.

In those 'plenty of households' energy is being used throughout the day though. But increasingly households need 2 incomes coming in. A SAHA is getting thin on the ground due to COL.

The world isn't set up to accommodate this ideology. The government can't have it all ways.

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 09:19

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 07:32

So the government is offering solar panels at some point? That would make more sense than use your electricity at other times or else we're going to charge you more.

In those 'plenty of households' energy is being used throughout the day though. But increasingly households need 2 incomes coming in. A SAHA is getting thin on the ground due to COL.

The world isn't set up to accommodate this ideology. The government can't have it all ways.

I’m not sure you’re arguing in good faith. You suggested that the number of meters coming to the end of their life was suspicious. I explained that it was inevitable, due to the sheer number of meters in the country. You ignored that. Then you said your prices hadn’t changed much in recent years. I explained that unit rates for most had in fact tripled, hence the energy crisis. You ignored that too. Then you claimed that it doesn’t make sense to charge people more to use electricity at certain times, and less at others. Economy 7, and related tariffs, have been doing this for around 50 years, so as to shift electricity consumption overnight, when generation is plentiful and demand is low. Smart meters will give everyone that option, allowing the country to exploit cheaper renewable energy

It’s either that, or we stick with the current model, and everyone uses energy whenever they feel like it. And everyone pays through the nose for the privilege. Take your pick.

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 09:46

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 09:19

I’m not sure you’re arguing in good faith. You suggested that the number of meters coming to the end of their life was suspicious. I explained that it was inevitable, due to the sheer number of meters in the country. You ignored that. Then you said your prices hadn’t changed much in recent years. I explained that unit rates for most had in fact tripled, hence the energy crisis. You ignored that too. Then you claimed that it doesn’t make sense to charge people more to use electricity at certain times, and less at others. Economy 7, and related tariffs, have been doing this for around 50 years, so as to shift electricity consumption overnight, when generation is plentiful and demand is low. Smart meters will give everyone that option, allowing the country to exploit cheaper renewable energy

It’s either that, or we stick with the current model, and everyone uses energy whenever they feel like it. And everyone pays through the nose for the privilege. Take your pick.

That's my point. We should be allowed to take our pick.

Instead we got 'get a smart meter, they're free and will save you a fortune'

When questioned we were told they absolutely weren't a 2 way meter. Until they admitted it and now we know they can be turned into a prepayment meter without ever entering your house. Even if they make a mistake with your billing. Or switch your energy off for a bit to ease pressure.

Then we get hounded with calls, texts and letters to get this free smart meter that'll benefit us hugely.

Then we get your meter is coming to the end of its life, but sadly we can only install smart meters.

More hounding.

Then it's taken advantage or you'll have to pay for installation when you're forced to have one.

Now we're getting we need a smart meter so energy companies can take advantage of charging us more during peak times and you're saying we need to spread out our usage during the day, even if we're at work.

Not to mention the various issues with the things getting it wrong, setting on fire, no signal, having take a day off work to get the things in and the recent panorama on them.

Nothing pushed so hard on us is for our benefit. I said it from the start.

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 10:05

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 09:46

That's my point. We should be allowed to take our pick.

Instead we got 'get a smart meter, they're free and will save you a fortune'

When questioned we were told they absolutely weren't a 2 way meter. Until they admitted it and now we know they can be turned into a prepayment meter without ever entering your house. Even if they make a mistake with your billing. Or switch your energy off for a bit to ease pressure.

Then we get hounded with calls, texts and letters to get this free smart meter that'll benefit us hugely.

Then we get your meter is coming to the end of its life, but sadly we can only install smart meters.

More hounding.

Then it's taken advantage or you'll have to pay for installation when you're forced to have one.

Now we're getting we need a smart meter so energy companies can take advantage of charging us more during peak times and you're saying we need to spread out our usage during the day, even if we're at work.

Not to mention the various issues with the things getting it wrong, setting on fire, no signal, having take a day off work to get the things in and the recent panorama on them.

Nothing pushed so hard on us is for our benefit. I said it from the start.

Edited

Everyone can take their pick; TOU tariffs are not mandatory, and never will be, because there will always be people for whom they're totally unsuitable. Even those who don't choose one will benefit from lower prices as the country moves away from burning (expensive) gas for electricity generation.

Of course smart meters are 2-way meters, and always have been, that's how they receive things like price changes and the like. If you fall into chronic arrears, yes, they can remotely change you to prepayment mode. Quicker, and cheaper for everyone, than the current system, but with the same protections. Probably more, since OFGEM came down on suppliers like a ton of bricks last year.

Yes, they say they can only install smart meters because, frankly, it's their equipment and they can lawfully install what they like. It's always been that way. It's a bit like digital television. They decided to modernise the infrastructure, and that was that. If you wanted to stick with analogue television, tough!

No one will pay for the installation of a smart meter, now or in the future. That's included in your bill. However, suppliers can charge customers who insist upon a traditional meter.

Meter fires are vanishingly rare, for any type. Meter errors are also extremely rare, for any type. Panorama illustrated the administrative and technological flaws in the meter roll-out. The concept itself is fine and, again, will rescue us from our disastrous "dash for gas" approach and the massive energy poverty that has resulted.

Continuing to derive most of our electicity-generation from burning gas is most assuredly not for our benefit. I said that from the start.

Tel12 · 12/11/2024 10:11

Have had no end of trouble since ours were installed a month ago. They didn't work and still don't but on the day of installation we went from being in credit to 3k in debit. I should have left well alone. Spent hours sorting it out.

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 10:19

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 10:05

Everyone can take their pick; TOU tariffs are not mandatory, and never will be, because there will always be people for whom they're totally unsuitable. Even those who don't choose one will benefit from lower prices as the country moves away from burning (expensive) gas for electricity generation.

Of course smart meters are 2-way meters, and always have been, that's how they receive things like price changes and the like. If you fall into chronic arrears, yes, they can remotely change you to prepayment mode. Quicker, and cheaper for everyone, than the current system, but with the same protections. Probably more, since OFGEM came down on suppliers like a ton of bricks last year.

Yes, they say they can only install smart meters because, frankly, it's their equipment and they can lawfully install what they like. It's always been that way. It's a bit like digital television. They decided to modernise the infrastructure, and that was that. If you wanted to stick with analogue television, tough!

No one will pay for the installation of a smart meter, now or in the future. That's included in your bill. However, suppliers can charge customers who insist upon a traditional meter.

Meter fires are vanishingly rare, for any type. Meter errors are also extremely rare, for any type. Panorama illustrated the administrative and technological flaws in the meter roll-out. The concept itself is fine and, again, will rescue us from our disastrous "dash for gas" approach and the massive energy poverty that has resulted.

Continuing to derive most of our electicity-generation from burning gas is most assuredly not for our benefit. I said that from the start.

So why did they lie and say they weren't 2 way right at the start? Do not tell me that didn't happen. If you start something off on a lie, nobody is going to believe anything else.

If we can pick. Why have I and many others had to block our energy suppliers constant texts? I've said no, why am I being hounded? Why do I have to hang up the phone on them?

I'm willing to have limited tariffs and pay more for the pleasure of not having my supply tempered with at will. I should be allowed to make that choice.

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 10:37

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 10:19

So why did they lie and say they weren't 2 way right at the start? Do not tell me that didn't happen. If you start something off on a lie, nobody is going to believe anything else.

If we can pick. Why have I and many others had to block our energy suppliers constant texts? I've said no, why am I being hounded? Why do I have to hang up the phone on them?

I'm willing to have limited tariffs and pay more for the pleasure of not having my supply tempered with at will. I should be allowed to make that choice.

They didn't. Right from the start, prepayment smart meter customers have been able to top up online, from any location, instead of physically loading credit, purchased at a retail outlet, onto their meter with a key. How could this possibly be achieved if the supplier had no means of communicating with the meter?

Smart meters are currently optional. However, being billed via a certified meter is not, it's mandated by law. So, those whose meter's certification period has expired must accept a new, certified meter. Today's meters are smart meters, like today's television is digital television.

You will have that choice, irrespective of your meter type.

SerendipityJane · 12/11/2024 10:50

So the government is offering solar panels at some point?

If the - any - government was serious about net zero and all that bollocks, then rather than backing the make-a-spiv-rich scheme that is "solar panels" (who remembers the feed-in-tariff scam ?) they would have backed panels that heated water to supply hot water and central heating which are about 3 times the efficiency of solar PV panels.

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-solar-thermal-vs-solar-pv

When I saw the government tilting towards punting PV panels, I knew there was a scam to give cronies and homeowners a bung under the unassailable mantra of "being green".

Proof of the pudding being the apocalyptic wailings of people when the FIT were changed.

Solar Thermal vs Solar PV - What's the Difference?

Solar panels use the sun's energy to generate power, either as heat or electricity. Compare solar thermal vs solar PV to see which is right for you.

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-solar-thermal-vs-solar-pv

OP posts:
GasPanic · 12/11/2024 10:51

When they work well they work well.

But far too often they don't, and the transition can become very messy.

For people that are worried that it can be used to control their electricity, their electricity can already be controlled at the substation if necessary.

For people who are worried that the government can use it to control their brain, there is no hope.

I won't be having a smart meter because it would be useless as the reception round here is appalling due to the relatively remote location plus the housing geometry. Plus they would have to drill holes in the side of my house to power the gas meter. All it would be is a box tick for them. It wouldn't bring me any benefits.

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 10:53

GasPanic · 12/11/2024 10:51

When they work well they work well.

But far too often they don't, and the transition can become very messy.

For people that are worried that it can be used to control their electricity, their electricity can already be controlled at the substation if necessary.

For people who are worried that the government can use it to control their brain, there is no hope.

I won't be having a smart meter because it would be useless as the reception round here is appalling due to the relatively remote location plus the housing geometry. Plus they would have to drill holes in the side of my house to power the gas meter. All it would be is a box tick for them. It wouldn't bring me any benefits.

Smart gas meters run off a long-life battery, so no drilling is required.

GasPanic · 12/11/2024 10:54

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 10:53

Smart gas meters run off a long-life battery, so no drilling is required.

I didn't know that, thank you.

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 11:09

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 10:37

They didn't. Right from the start, prepayment smart meter customers have been able to top up online, from any location, instead of physically loading credit, purchased at a retail outlet, onto their meter with a key. How could this possibly be achieved if the supplier had no means of communicating with the meter?

Smart meters are currently optional. However, being billed via a certified meter is not, it's mandated by law. So, those whose meter's certification period has expired must accept a new, certified meter. Today's meters are smart meters, like today's television is digital television.

You will have that choice, irrespective of your meter type.

I'm not talking about pre paid meters. I'm asking why they lied about them being 2 way.

I also asked if they are optional then why are we being hounded to get one after saying no.

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 11:18

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 11:09

I'm not talking about pre paid meters. I'm asking why they lied about them being 2 way.

I also asked if they are optional then why are we being hounded to get one after saying no.

All smart meters can operate in both prepayment and credit mode. 2-way communication has always been part of the specification, I'm surprised anyone would think otherwise. The in-home display shows real-time energy costs and also has a message inbox. Where do you think the current price and messages would come from if the smart meter only sent data?

They are optional, and no one should be hounded if they have declined to have one fitted. However, a lot of people, including PP in this thread, are being hounded because their meter's certification has expired. That is how it should be, because their supplier has no business billing them via an uncertified meter.

SerendipityJane · 12/11/2024 13:47

For people that are worried that it can be used to control their electricity, their electricity can already be controlled at the substation if necessary.

Not at the consumer level. The substation will take out entire blocks of houses (as can be seem if a phase is lost - you have a patchwork of houses with and without power on the same street).

OP posts:
gamerchick · 12/11/2024 13:53

It's like talking to a politician. Can't give a straight answer to a question.

Cynic17 · 12/11/2024 13:56

I have been getting letters for years. They still go straight in the bin. A smart meter will not save me any money, as I will still use the same amount of power as and when I need it. It's all getting so tedious.

Fireworknight · 12/11/2024 14:00

Just had one installed a couple of weeks ago, by Octopus. So far, so good. South east England.

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 14:06

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 13:53

It's like talking to a politician. Can't give a straight answer to a question.

Nonsense, I’ve given straightforward, factual answers to each of your questions. You, on the other hand, move the goalposts every time I challenge your incorrect statements. ‘My bills have stayed the same so there’s no crisis’. Ridiculous logic.

Chersfrozenface · 12/11/2024 14:19

Even the government, the regulator and the energy companies admit that 1 in 10 smart meters don't work properly.

There were 3.29 million smart meters in domestic properties at the end of last year

So around 330,000 don't work properly. That's quite a lot of households affected.

LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway · 12/11/2024 14:26

Colour me shocked! Shock

Knew they were pile of bollocks from the get go. I don't know anyone who's got one, who's had no problems with it.

I was mithered and badgered and bothered by British Gas for about 3-4 years to get a smart meter - even to the point of making an appointment to come and fit one. An appointment that I DIDN'T MAKE. I was getting SO pissed off!

I finally lost my shit when my electric meter broke, and they refused to replace it unless I agreed to both meters being replaced by smart meters. They said the meters are 'so old' that they 'don't have the parts anymore.' 🙄 They were both only 8-9 years old FFS.

I went nuclear on them, calling them bullies and said were blackmailing me, and they were a disgrace. I threatened them with Trading Standards and the Ombudsman. And I was going to contact them as well, when they contacted me and apologised and promised to leave me alone/not bother me about smart meters again. 18 months now and they haven't bothered me since. (They came to fix the electric meter a few days later.)

Smart meters have been such a colossal waste of money - and time. One of the biggest that we have encountered in the 21st century. HS2 is the only thing that springs to mind that comes close when it comes to being a massive waste of time and money.

Smart meters can get in the bin!

.

SerendipityJane · 12/11/2024 14:31

Smart meters have been such a colossal waste of money - and time.

Not if you make and sell them ....

OP posts:
LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway · 12/11/2024 14:41

SerendipityJane · 12/11/2024 14:31

Smart meters have been such a colossal waste of money - and time.

Not if you make and sell them ....

😂 True!

gamerchick · 12/11/2024 14:41

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 14:06

Nonsense, I’ve given straightforward, factual answers to each of your questions. You, on the other hand, move the goalposts every time I challenge your incorrect statements. ‘My bills have stayed the same so there’s no crisis’. Ridiculous logic.

I've asked you why they lied about them being 2 way when they first came out. You still haven't answered me.

You're saying they're optional, so I've asked you why people are being hounded. The hounding start long before the expired meter thing. Why haven't we been allowed to say no and that be the end of it?

VeritableChestnut · 12/11/2024 14:43

Chersfrozenface · 12/11/2024 14:19

Even the government, the regulator and the energy companies admit that 1 in 10 smart meters don't work properly.

There were 3.29 million smart meters in domestic properties at the end of last year

So around 330,000 don't work properly. That's quite a lot of households affected.

Your figures are a wee bit out. There are currently 30.7 million smart meters in domestic properties in GB, of which 3.4 million are not operating in smart mode. Obviously that's unacceptably high, but it still means the vast majority are working properly.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66ce1eeeface0992fa41f663/2024_Q2_Smart_Meters_Statistics_Report.pdf

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