Year 1 violent and disruptive behaviour - only at school

[ncforschoolhelp]

My DS is 5 and in year 1 at school. I will try to give as many facts as I can as would appreciate any and all advice.

In year R he transitioned into school well we saw some challenging behaviour both at school and home around the time his baby brother (now 16 months) was born but that improved and by the end of year R he was achieving and performing well at school.

Year 1 is a different story. He is in an infant school in a mixed year 1 & 2 class. We absolutely love the school and I can't fault his teachers. His behaviour has got progressively worse since starting year 1, and he is now being violent and disrespectful towards teachers and disruptive to his classmates.

He has no diagnosis for anything, nor are we seeking one (yet), and the school have been very clear that they don't believe he is showing any signs of ASD. He is showing some signs of ODD, but not all of the time and seems to very much be choosing poor behaviour.

The school (and us as his parents) believe that a lot of his behaviour is driven by anxieties but I'm at a loss to understand what his anxieties are. We parent relatively gently, however are consistent and firm in consequences (removals of privilege, toys or special events in the main) for poor behaviour. His behaviour at home is what I would call very normal, a little boundary pushing and some backchat but he is only ever violent or aggressive at home when we are dealing with the fall out of an incident at school.

There were incidents of violence from an older kid last year which the school dealt with well and that child is no longer at the school.

Outside of school he has 2 extra curriculars per week where his behaviour is fine, he gets 10-11 hours of sleep per night, eats well and lives in a comfortable home with lots of toys / books / games / stimulus etc.

The school are bringing in a local behaviour support team as a first step to help them build strategies around him and we will be involved in these conversations too and will do whatever we can to support the school in helping him manage his frustrations.

Lastly, he is out performing all of his peers in reading, maths, literacy. He reads different books and does different work to his class and the school see him as being top end year 2 if not year 3 in his ability. This is lovely to hear but I would much rather that academically he was slightly more average if it meant his social skills started to develop in a better way.

I'm at a complete loss as to what to do to help him. He's a lovely, curious, clever and funny kid who just seems to completely lose his way while he's at school and I think I thought he would be fine after a half term break but he's not and today was another incident to add to the others.

I'm feeling like it's all my fault, I have an ingrained dislike of authority and that I've passed this on, I have suffered with anxiety and low mental health in the past and I worry that I've done something wrong, even though I'm also really confident that we have provided him with a relatively lovely life so far, as much as we can.

Has anyone experienced similar? Has anyone experience of ODD at such a young age? Has anyone seen success from working with behavioural support teams? Should I be taking him to the GP?

Thanks so much if you've made it this far and I appreciate any advice!

Also, although I think we are quite away off at present, for anyone who's DC have had medication for ADHD / ASD could they share their experience?

Thank you 🙏

Everything you've written in your first post screams neurodivergence to me. Autism/ADHD/sensory challenges leading to overwhelm and the behaviours you're seeing at school.

Teachers are not qualified to, nor should they be the gatekeepers of services to, assess for neurodevelopmental conditions. Of course experienced teaching staff may detect these but they equally may miss them too.

From a late diagnosed autistic and ADHD adult, with two children who are both exceptionally bright and diagnosed with both too (and whom, if they did not have to their diagnoses, would be thought of by their teachers as 'definitely not autistic/ADHD' too).

Get him assessed.

To answer your most recent question you can't medicate ASD. It's environment and expectational adjustments, additional processing time where needed, helping with transitions, giving routine, structure, stability, meeting sensory needs etc etc.

My children who have ADHD aren't medicated (they don't need it, currently) but I am as an adult and have been for two years now. It has been absolutely life changing.

@ncforschoolhelp this all sounds overwhelming for you. Just a few observations from my experience (DDs are now almost 19, 17, and 15, 2 have ASD dx, one was assessed this week):

-School could be right about what they are seeing and at the same time you can be right about what you're seeing. The environment is different and expectations are different.
-Some teachers are more 'ASD friendly' in their approaches to teaching, which reduces ASD symptoms that are observed. DD2 did really well in years 3/4 with a teacher who naturally used ASD friendly tools. Although school noticed some of her fondness for routine, etc., they weren't concerned. When she moved into the year 5/6 class, she really struggled and the school then said 'Ok, we have a problem...' and supported an ASD referral.
-If you've noticed things in your own personality that are slightly different from typical (e.g. you noticed your dislike of authority) it is possible that you have some neurodiversity, and that your parenting naturally fits your DS's needs because of it. That's the case in our house, I think, because DDs didn't struggle with us at home, but did at school.

Thank you & apologies; I meant medicated for ADHD, not ASD.

DS1 is 12 and has been medicated for ADHD since he was 8. It's honestly night and day. He struggled so badly in KS1 but got top marks in his SATs and is flying at secondary. Meds were the key, he just couldn't concentrate/regulate without them. He also has ASD but this is a neurodevelopmental condition and therefore cannot be 'treated' (and I wouldn't want to treat it).

When I looked at the childhood anxiety and depression questionnaire as part of the ADHD diagnosis, it was like seeing my childhood reflected back at me. I think, as you start on this journey, you might discover things about yourself :)

Financially, look into Right to Choose. I thought I mentioned that upthread. Gets you a private diagnosis for free (and much quicker than waiting for NHS list. My son's diagnosis of ADHD was done within 2 months of referral, and his autism one was within 6 months of referral (and that was only because the two clinicians disagreed at first and wanted more information and evidence). My GP had never heard of it so don't rely on your GP for knowing about it - you might need to guide them into how to do a referral. I researched it myself so I could advise my GP.

@Worriedmotheroftwo (love the name, are you me?) thank you, that's really useful. I'll do some research and reading.

I was definitely you one year ago, I promise! We went through literally ALL of this when my son started Reception and it was utter hell. Do look into it, and don't rely on your GP to have all the answers; you might get lucky, but the one we saw was useless and I had to literally tell him what to do. He was very amenable though and did all the referrals I asked for once I told him how, but he has no idea how to help me or my son other than what I told him he needed.

@ncforschoolhelp your pattern is EXACTLY like my DS. He has ADHD and the right meds and the right parenting mean life is calmer now.

The totally different child outside of school, is an indication that it is coping or not coping with the environment he's in, that's leading major behavior difference in each.

Mine wasn't attacking anyone but himself. Advanced academically, a bit behind socially, he was frequently in meltdown at school, but we rarely saw anything relating to what they were saying was going on.
He was very rule adherent and it was clear he was getting picked on and bullied for being 'different,' and school felt his differences were 'attention seeking.'
Had a strong sense of justice. His gait was odd, he knocked into things and fell a lot. Bits came out of joint a lot. He walked on tiptoes. He could explain the physics behind so many things way above his age level, but couldn't do many basic tasks others could.

We were a very busy WC, working disabled LP, financially constrained, many sibling/half sibling household, and everyone expected to pull their weight and get on with it, but continuously adjusted to ensure we all could.

At home and out and about he was mainly a contented and easy going child though not particularly interested in other children outside immediate friends.

I now know that was all because he was accidentally parented and befriended in a way that worked for him. Things were consistent even in an ever changing situation, rules and consequences always applied equally.
School was a painful revelation about the world.

School were adamant that it wasn't ASD and refused all requests for investigation, claiming instead that his lack of meltdowns and difficult behavior at home meant he was scared to be his real self at home, that being on tip toes (worse at school) was a cry for help, and only at school could he relax enough to show his distress at whatever it was that was going on at home causing all this.
This idea colored the reports of those brought in to observe, they started always with that idea as the background. (later picked apart and exposed in court)

Consequently we went down the child protection route for years, withe everyone following schools lead that he didn't have ASD, so it was automatically ruled out.

All behavior is communication. Who decides what it is communicating can make or break a situation.

Finally Great Ormond Street Hospital intervened and he was swiftly diagnosed with autism, severe dyspraxia, dyslexia, dyscalcula, and hypermobility. They wanted to look at ADHD too, but at the time it was another red flag for poor parenting, and for the sake of everyone's MH we decided against investigating it. (With hindsight possibly wrongly.)

That intervention only came because I stopped listening to what everyone stated as 'fact' and started researching and learning, and accepting I'd been listening to all the wrong people, and sent a heartbroken letter with school reports and claims, SS views, photographs and a video to GOSH, asking what I might be doing wrong. They helped me navigate how to get him to be seen by them.

You have to be your child's advocate and that may mean going against 'professional' opinions and paying some harsh prices en route. The price of not managing it, is higher and permanent. You understandably believe you can't afford private help, it may turn out you can't afford not to find a way around this.

Like many PP's IME I would suggest your Ds is highly likely to need investigation for ASD with possible PDA profile, and ADHD, regardless of schools opinions. Wheels turned slowly when I was going through it, they're turning even slower now, so get in the queues and think outside the box about financial constraints.

You’ve received great advice here already, I just wanted to reassure you that you haven’t done anything wrong, also as you said home life is calmer than school where the main issues are arising then perhaps at home you have a more structured and comfortable environment for your son, where as school can be overwhelming and if he is above average in intelligence he may also be frustrated, my son (6) is on the ADHD pathway, he also presents with violent and aggressive behaviours, he has explained that he doesn’t want to do the work because “I know it already” and also struggles with being distracted so becomes overstimulated and therefore out of control.

There is a SEN topic chat group on here which has been extremely helpful for me as a parent seeking advice and it helps as you will find you are not alone in this!

Thanks again so much, all. We have seen the GP this morning who advised that our area doesn't refer until 6 but they will make an exception due to the ramping up of the poor behaviour and violence.

I'm still doing lots of reading and whilst there are some elements of ASD with a PDA profile that apply I think, we just don't see enough of the poor behaviour at home to notice it completely in DS. Hopefully now we are on the track to him being referred and assessed we can get him what he needs. It's so hard!!

I was also assessed and subsequently diagnosed (both autistic and ADHD) after my eldest child was, and we'd said in all seriousness at the assessment 'no there's no history at all of any neurodevelopmental diagnoses within the family!'

Er....... or so we thought!

It's so clear, years down the line that there IS a very strong history of undiagnosed neurodivergence running through my family and some on DHs side too. I am ND, both of my children are, my sister is and very likely my parents and at least one of my grandparents are/were too.

I work with ND families now. It is not at all unusual, in fact I'd say it's overly commonplace, that where you have an ND child there is one parent or both who are just like them, but unaware/undiagnosed. They (we!) often don't pick up on some of their more subtle unusual 'quirks' because they're 'normal' to us and the wider family. After all, we do them too! Plus the children are more settled at home because we naturally parent/have an environment in a way that better meet their additional needs, because the adaptations we automatically make meet our own needs too.

A full PDA profile is different to having Demand Avoidance coping mechanisms and tendencies. It's not even diagnosed in some counties. Most people with ASD have DA tendencies and will use these to cope. A full PDA presentation is (usually, not always) evident in every aspect of the child's life.

It may be that your child is 'just' DA, which is perfectly usual in ASD. You don't see it as much at home because that's his safe space and he's far less dysregulated there with you. He's more DA at school because his levels of dysregulation are very likely off the scale and his behaviours are a result of that.

Also OP check out the resources on your local SENDIASS website and get in touch with them if you need support advocating for him in school, they can help enormously and they're free of charge. IPSEA also have a ton of resources that can help you navigate his support in school.

He may need an EHCP, and if he does don't be put off by school saying 'oh he doesn't need one' - you can apply to your county council yourself if he meets criteria.

Thank you @atichoo , really useful.

The school have already mentioned that an EHCP would be sought; I understand this to mean that they believe they could use the additional support an EHCP would bring, whether that's physical resource support or funding for anything else that might be required.

BTW - you guys are amazing. You've all been so supportive and helpful. Thank you x

@ncforschoolhelp can I check how things are now? My reception child is presenting exactly the same and I feel like I'm drowning! X

Hi @Friend1010!

So we have had 7-8 weeks of complete change. With implementing some of the local behavioural services interventions at school, and a huge focus on positive reinforcement both at school and home, he is like a different kid.

He's not perfect (nor would we want him to be!) but honestly it's so, so much better now.

This sustained change I think is really down to how hard the school has worked to be consistent in praise and consequence, but I also think he has worked really, really hard at trying to do differently and work through what we call his "tricky moments". He just behaves differently when things don't go his way now - much calmer, more accepting and understanding that he can't always have everything his way.

His little brother is now much more active and they play constantly at home - he says himself that this is why things have changed, because he has someone to play with at home. Breaks my heart a bit but there you go! Maybe we just simply weren't giving him the attention he needed. Who knows.

I also really believe the change in structure, routine, teachers and kids in his class moving from year R to year 1 led to this behaviour, particularly when we saw similar (although nowhere near as serious) behaviour after the first few weeks of year R.

Now we need to focus on what we do for junior school. We're hopeful that year 2 won't start as badly because the routine, structure and probably teachers will stay the same but who knows.

I'm also totally aware that things could change anytime and we're much better prepared for that, I think.

It's so tough and honestly you lot were so helpful when I was finding things super tough. Feel free to vent or ask any other questions!!

Also - currently GP referral for ASD / ADHD etc waiting time is 28 months here, so not hopeful there!!

@ncforschoolhelp I'm so pleased to hear things are going better. I feel at a bit of a loss atm and would take any improvement atm.

He's a completely different child at home, and it's making so sad seeing him struggling so much. He's absolutely exhausted as well, even though he's sleeping loads, so clearly taking it's toll.

He is having some observations in the next few weeks so hoping that will help in terms of getting him the support he needs. He's very articulate in telling me its too noisy, busy and he doesn't feel calm. And he doesn't like it when he's put on his own. Breaks my heart 💔

Oh I really do feel for you. I felt so low when we were in the midst of everything. Do you feel that the school are supportive of his needs? Are you seeing a difference in his behaviour at school vs at home?

Yep.

School can be very wrong on autism... didn't think DD had it but clearly does. (Diagnosis)

@ncforschoolhelp yes I don't recognise the boy they describe. He's definitely strong willed and energetic at home but he's not physical or disruptive and does listen as much as any 5yo does.

They weren't overly supportive just thought he was seeking control, but they have now got on board thay he's struggling with the environment and getting some assessments to put in place some interventions to help him.

It's a whole new world, and makes me feel incredibly sad for the kids that have been labelled naughty and not got the help they have needed all these years!

Hi, do you mind providing another update? I am you and at the beginning on my journey and it's so hard 😢

@ncforschoolhelp @Friend1010 if either of you still use mumsnet I would be so grateful to hear where you are now? I am at the beginning and it is so stressful 😥