Housing association to fit new flat fire door AND new locks.

[JenniferBooth]

We had our flat door modified in 2019 to meet regulations and it has a self closer. An inspection officer came round unannounced on 12 JULY and checked it said thankyou and left. Received a letter last Friday and these doors have to be replaced URGENTLY (July was four months ago) i rang them today and we will also have to have new locks fitted and will be given three new keys. (DH says we can sort a locksmith out later) Has anyone else had this done? Im very concerned about the security aspect of this. They are doing a lot of the estate

Ring them again and ask them why they need to be fitted so urgently? If they're replacing potentially unsafe locks then what's the security problem?

Its not the locks that are unsafe They are saying that the door does not meet fire regulations despite the fact they have already retro fitted it so it does Self closer tick Fire retardant letterbox tick No gaps around door tick And we will LOSE our locks My contents insurance is based on the lock i have.

Ring them and ask what aspects of your door don’t meet current fire regs so you understand why it needs replacing. Then I think you’re being a bit silly about the security aspect. It’s very unlikely to be an expensive and time consuming ruse to gain access your flat. And your DH is right - get a locksmith to install the locks you want.

You won’t technically “lose” your locks if the HA is providing replacement locks and keys at their own cost. You can check which type of locks are being supplied and then check with your insurer that they meet the same criteria as you declared when you took the insurance out. Unless your current locks are a particularly niche type then they almost certainly will, modern door locks will all meet BS3621 standards, which is what insurers stipulate.

Consider whether you could remove the locks from the door just before the door is removed, and then refit into the new door?

Person at the call centre said no but i can ask contractor when they are here

What are they going to do about it if they come to remove the door, and it has no locks though? Hardly likely to refuse to fit the new door.

It depends on the type of door, and type of locks. But some are very straightforward to replace.

You can't (well you can but....) retro fit your own locks after the new door has been installed as it will render the as door non compliant. You could argue though that this would make it a 'nominal fire door' I.e it has all the characteristics and behaviour of a fire door but won't be certified.

Ask if the door is 'Secured by Design' that should satisfy your insurance company

It's perfectly normal for a previously remediated door to be replaced with new, even if only a few months have passed. The Gov have a huge budget for passive fire protection and the HAs need to spend it.

@BayandBlonde "It's perfectly normal for a previously remediated door to be replaced with new, even if only a few months have passed. The Gov have a huge budget for passive fire protection and the HAs need to spend it."

do you mean it doesn't actually need replacing? Sorry if I misunderstood

Thats all well and good as long as the tenants employer is happy for them to repeatedly take time off work to enable this.

It depends on if the remediated door has been certified. Most Passive Fire Protection companies won't certify a remediation, instead it will be classed a nominal fire door. In many cases it is cheaper to replace than remediate.

Question is, will a remediated door fail after 30 minutes burn time (60 minutes for the case of communal doors), if the answer is 'don't know' or there isn't test data then yes the door needs replacing with new

DP had exactly that issue in his flat. His is purchased but most of the block aren't and are still HA.
The HA replaced the door (which as the leaseholder he had to pay for but wasn't given a choice to to whether it happened) then within a year or 2 wanted to replace again - albeit without a further charge to him.

They kept leaving "we've called to replace your door, but you weren't in. We will call again" notes. He wasn't in as he was at work.
He'd ring them, they'd promise calls would be returned, then he'd get another note through the door.
This went on for at least a year, then he had a letter telling him the original replacement door was compliant after all and they wouldn't be re-replacing it.

Im more worried about a break in afterwards.

You can leave the keys with a neighbour, or take to the rent place, get someone in to house sit. You dont physically have to be in.

Even home owners have to stay in or do one of the above when they get stuff done.

We had very similar in early 2022 Our door was modified in 2019

"sigh" This again My tenancy agreement says i the tenant HAVE to be in
And from an older thread i posted..
JenniferBooth · 12/02/2023 17:15

Our HA and the HA my friend rents from will not allow that. The tenant has to be home.
One memorable check involved an interesting chat with a contractor who said his wife had run up gambling debts Both DH and i looked at each other and said no chance. Contractor was from same company mentioned above.
Contrary to popular belief about SH tenants i have contents insurance. Would they pay out if something went missing or was damaged? Or would they say tough shit you chose not to be there.

It will be in your tenancy agreement that access must be given for essential repairs and maintenance - which fitting a fire door which conforms to appropriate legal standards falls into. If the block burned down with you and your family in your flat and it was discovered the HA hadn’t been enforcing its obligation to ensure compliance with fire safety legislation, you can presumably imagine the response. Being contrary about things required of your landlord by law, to ensure your safety, isn’t to your benefit.

Why? What makes their lock vulnerable to break-ins?

see my post at 18.00 then try to work it out

Why don't you ask for details of the locks they'll be fitting and the spec for your insurance purposes. They will surely have this information.

Trying to figure this out, is it that you don't trust their contractors? They'd have to be pretty fecking stupid to break into places they'd fitted doors with new locks to.

There's no need to be unpleasant. You posted that whilst I was writing mine.

I'm out. Bye.

A lot of jobs are sub and sub and sub contracted. Locks will be changed afterwards anyway so it doesnt matter really

Its the last thing i needed while arranging my dads funeral If it was so urgent it wouldnt have waited four months. Cos a lot can happen in four months If it was urgent it should have been done long before now.

If they're suddenly falling over themselves to replace all of the doors (and as somebody very familiar with how it generally takes the entire roof to be missing before they'll say anything other than 'Oh, that's tenants' responsibility, you'll have to get up there and fix it yourself with some Polyfilla', I'd be more concerned about dying horribly in the event of a fire before they replace the current bodge job temporary measures myself.