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If you are someone who drives down a slip road towards a busy dual carriageway with no intention of stopping ….

490 replies

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 30/10/2024 14:49

Where do you think the cars are going to go if they is no space to go into the outside lane?

There is a really bad junction I’m currently dealing with every day. He cars come down the slip road in convoy. No ability for me to slot inbetween and they show absolutely no sign of slowing down to wait to join the trunk road. If I have a car on my right, where do these people think I’m going to avoid a collision?

OP posts:
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ComingBackHome · 01/11/2024 09:31

It sounds like most drivers could do with refresher courses tbh!

Maybe instead of focusing on elderly drivers, we should have people redoing a test every 10 years or so.

akkakk · 01/11/2024 09:43

ComingBackHome · 01/11/2024 09:31

It sounds like most drivers could do with refresher courses tbh!

Maybe instead of focusing on elderly drivers, we should have people redoing a test every 10 years or so.

we could very simply require an online highway code test annually - the outcome giving you a code which you need to buy car insurance...

ErrolTheDragon · 01/11/2024 09:48

we could very simply require an online highway code test annually - the outcome giving you a code which you need to buy car insurance...

Now there's an idea!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

SinnerBoy · 01/11/2024 11:01

I can imagine the anguished howls of Daily Mail commentators, about how it's a war on motorists!

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:01

ComingBackHome · 01/11/2024 09:28

What you have posted doesn’t say that that drivers on the road are EXPECTED to accomodate.
Saying that would mean they have to. They don’t.
It says
More often they drivers will more ACCOMMODATING than you fear.

Which is clearly an expectation!

akkakk · 01/11/2024 11:14

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:01

Which is clearly an expectation!

the link is irrelevant - the two things that matter are:

  • legislation
  • highway code
nothing else

It really is very very very simple...
Priority is given to those using the main carriageway when joining...

They are expected to carry on as normal
those joining adapt speed to slot in - or in extremis stop and give way...

no ifs / buts / courtesies / what ifs / should dos / might dos / could dos...
simple and straight forward - so simple it only needs a couple of lines to confirm it... in reality it only needs:
'priority is given to the traffic on the main carriageway' or equivalent - that says it all...

yes, there are those who might be courteous and move out / ease-off / accelerate to make space - but none of that is required or expected - the legal position is those on the main carriageway carry on as normal - those on the slip road adapt...

Anyone who doesn't get that, or who thinks otherwise really needs to:

  • read the highway code
  • re-read the highway code so that they understand it
  • get refresher lessons
  • hand in their licence and stop driving

not complex 😁

leannetta · 01/11/2024 11:25

Ex driving examiner here. The lines at the end of a slip road are Give Way lines. The joining traffic should give way if they can’t merge without affecting the speed or direction of the traffic already on the main carriageway.

If you can move over to allow space, great! If not, avoid braking where possible as this is dangerous and is what causes waves of stop start traffic.

Where merge in turn is required there will be appropriate signage.

Unfortunately, the roads are filled with tossers.

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:40

in extremis stop and give way

This is the key. In extremis. Because generally forcing someone to stop at the end of a slip road is extremely dangerous and why it is important for people in the flow of traffic to let them in. Even if that means making some slight adjustment to their driving and not gripping their wheel insisting they have priority.

SirChenjins · 01/11/2024 11:43

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:40

in extremis stop and give way

This is the key. In extremis. Because generally forcing someone to stop at the end of a slip road is extremely dangerous and why it is important for people in the flow of traffic to let them in. Even if that means making some slight adjustment to their driving and not gripping their wheel insisting they have priority.

No-one is forcing them to do anything - they should be driving appropriately to enable their merge, and if they haven’t then they’ve forced themselves to stop.

Oh, and they do have priority - they don’t need to insist.

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:49

SirChenjins · 01/11/2024 11:43

No-one is forcing them to do anything - they should be driving appropriately to enable their merge, and if they haven’t then they’ve forced themselves to stop.

Oh, and they do have priority - they don’t need to insist.

But the whole point of this thread is that sometimes the lane of flow doesn't make it easy for someone on the slip to get in, however they're driving. Have you never come down a slip road alongside a huge lorry and wondered how on earth you are going to get in? No amount of amazing driving can deal with a string of lorries if they don't either move over in advance or make a gap.

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:51

40 years ago my driving instructor was quite hot on courtesy of the road. He drummed it in to me that a lot of accidents would be avoided if we all tried to be courteous and not push for our own way all the time.

taxguru · 01/11/2024 12:28

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:51

40 years ago my driving instructor was quite hot on courtesy of the road. He drummed it in to me that a lot of accidents would be avoided if we all tried to be courteous and not push for our own way all the time.

I agree. I was a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists and was an observer for our local group helping other drivers raise their driving standards to pass the test.

We were also very hot on courtesy and even hotter on anticipation and avoidance of potential problems, all the while whilst "making progress" ourselves. Part of that was providing space for other drivers joining a dual carriageway or motorway, either by speeding up/slowing down ourselves to create a gap in our lane, or moving lane ourselves. The rationale was that as long as it didn't hinder us or anyone else, then why not do it to help someone else. We'd not move over lane if it would cause another vehicle to change course (speed or lane), but if we could do it safely and not affecting anyone else, then we would. In fact, general advice was to move over at the approach to the exit slip road on the grounds that there would likely be an entry slip road quarter of a mile further on. Easy enough to move back left again if no vehicles entering. ALL in knowledge and observation of other vehicles - we certainly wouldn't be barging over if there was someone already there or a faster car approaching from behind who'd need to move over themselves if we got in their way.

We had it indoctrinated into us that whilst we needed to know our "rights" and be assertive to avoid confusion etc., at the same time, we were responsible, like all drivers, to avoid putting other drivers in harm's way if there was something we could do to reduce risks/hazards ourselves.

Part of the IAM test was a commentary where we had to describe the roads, the hazards, and more importantly, our reaction to what we were seeing and why we were doing certain things. Whilst the examiner would instruct us specifically when they wanted us to do the commentary, we could always voluntarily do it ourselves, either for the entire test or for other parts, and we'd encourage our associate members to practice doing that. It gave the ability to explain to the examiner why we were doing things that otherwise didn't appear to be required. Our particular group made a big point of always doing commentaries on motorways and dual carriageways to explain to the examiner why we were moving over if it wasn't obvious, likewise why we were slowing down/speeding up. The examiner himself, who we regularly met, would regularly commend us for taking that stance as he said he was often confused and conflicted when a driver did "strange" things without obvious reasoning and that explaining would often mean a borderline pass/fail would usually become a pass! All borne out of courtesy and avoiding risky situations, regardless of the rights and who'd be at fault!!

VegTrug · 01/11/2024 13:07

DO NOT stop in a slip road! EVERRR

nietzscheanvibe · 01/11/2024 13:22

Zonder · 01/11/2024 08:05

Interestingly the link posted this morning above expects drivers on the main road to accommodate.

Of course I don't think slip road drivers should join regardless of whether it's safe. Don't put words in people's mouths - it makes you look bad.

I do think if a driver has to stop at the bottom of a slip road they are in a dangerous position and that the drivers on the main road should do all they can to allow someone to slip in.

It's going to be extremely hard to join a flow of traffic at 70mph once you've been made to stop because drivers wouldn't let you in.

Of course I don't think slip road drivers should join regardless of whether it's safe. Don't put words in people's mouths - it makes you look bad.

So, you think they should stop if it's too dangerous to join? Don't contradict yourself - it makes you look stupid.

nietzscheanvibe · 01/11/2024 13:38

Zonder · 01/11/2024 11:40

in extremis stop and give way

This is the key. In extremis. Because generally forcing someone to stop at the end of a slip road is extremely dangerous and why it is important for people in the flow of traffic to let them in. Even if that means making some slight adjustment to their driving and not gripping their wheel insisting they have priority.

Because generally forcing someone to stop at the end of a slip road is extremely dangerous...

But not as dangerous as forcing your way onto a busy motorway from a slip road - what don't you understand?

Most people on the main road will adjust their speed or move to accommodate if they can do so safely, but this thread is about the entitled and downright dangerous behaviour of those stupid fuckers on the slip road who think that they have right of way, when they don't (and there are many of them on this thread, it would seem).

Zonder · 01/11/2024 14:03

Excellent post by @taxguru sums it up for me. Other posters can twist people's words but I'm leaving the last word to taxguru.

Another2Cats · 01/11/2024 14:08

VegTrug · 01/11/2024 13:07

DO NOT stop in a slip road! EVERRR

So, with a bunch of vehicles on the main carriageway driving very closely to each other you should just shout out "Good luck everybody else, I change lanes now!" and veer onto the main road?

ScarabBright · 01/11/2024 14:10

taxguru · 01/11/2024 12:28

I agree. I was a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists and was an observer for our local group helping other drivers raise their driving standards to pass the test.

We were also very hot on courtesy and even hotter on anticipation and avoidance of potential problems, all the while whilst "making progress" ourselves. Part of that was providing space for other drivers joining a dual carriageway or motorway, either by speeding up/slowing down ourselves to create a gap in our lane, or moving lane ourselves. The rationale was that as long as it didn't hinder us or anyone else, then why not do it to help someone else. We'd not move over lane if it would cause another vehicle to change course (speed or lane), but if we could do it safely and not affecting anyone else, then we would. In fact, general advice was to move over at the approach to the exit slip road on the grounds that there would likely be an entry slip road quarter of a mile further on. Easy enough to move back left again if no vehicles entering. ALL in knowledge and observation of other vehicles - we certainly wouldn't be barging over if there was someone already there or a faster car approaching from behind who'd need to move over themselves if we got in their way.

We had it indoctrinated into us that whilst we needed to know our "rights" and be assertive to avoid confusion etc., at the same time, we were responsible, like all drivers, to avoid putting other drivers in harm's way if there was something we could do to reduce risks/hazards ourselves.

Part of the IAM test was a commentary where we had to describe the roads, the hazards, and more importantly, our reaction to what we were seeing and why we were doing certain things. Whilst the examiner would instruct us specifically when they wanted us to do the commentary, we could always voluntarily do it ourselves, either for the entire test or for other parts, and we'd encourage our associate members to practice doing that. It gave the ability to explain to the examiner why we were doing things that otherwise didn't appear to be required. Our particular group made a big point of always doing commentaries on motorways and dual carriageways to explain to the examiner why we were moving over if it wasn't obvious, likewise why we were slowing down/speeding up. The examiner himself, who we regularly met, would regularly commend us for taking that stance as he said he was often confused and conflicted when a driver did "strange" things without obvious reasoning and that explaining would often mean a borderline pass/fail would usually become a pass! All borne out of courtesy and avoiding risky situations, regardless of the rights and who'd be at fault!!

I'm doing the Advanced Drivers course atm, and agree with everything said.

What's the point in being right if you end up in a pile up because someone else was wrong, and you were too intent on your rightness, instead of driving with anticipation and acknowledgement that sometimes others will be driving less than perfectly.

taxguru · 01/11/2024 14:17

ScarabBright · 01/11/2024 14:10

I'm doing the Advanced Drivers course atm, and agree with everything said.

What's the point in being right if you end up in a pile up because someone else was wrong, and you were too intent on your rightness, instead of driving with anticipation and acknowledgement that sometimes others will be driving less than perfectly.

Exactly. Far too many drivers are obsessed with being right and their fragile egos. They need to chill out and be more helpful/courteous. By being idiots, they're not going to get to their destination any quicker, and it's insanely stupid to be an awkward "billy big balls" just to get to the next set of traffic lights in front of someone else by a car length or two.

SirChenjins · 01/11/2024 14:34

What you're describing @taxguru is simply driving defensively, which most of us do to accommodate the idiots on the road who wouldn't know the Highway Code if it was right in front of them.

So sure, drivers might leave a gap if and when they can - but that doesn't mean that drivers on the trunk road must pull back, slow down, leave a gap or move over despite what so many posters on this thread appear to believe. I'm amazed that so many are labouring under the misapprehension that a slip road is the same as a zipper merge, or that you must never, ever stop at the end of a slip road for example - the ignorance is astounding.

Never, ever assume that a driver is going to move over or create a space or do anything else to accommodate your manoeuvre that you are solely responsbile for - and fgs, be aware of who has priority where and when.

ethelredonagoodday · 01/11/2024 14:58

I've only really experienced this a couple of times, but on my old commute there was one slip lane onto a DC which was very short, and on two occasions I needed to slow almost to a stop because otherwise I would have been in a bad crash. Is stressful if people don't adjust their speed and make space! But so many people I think don't anticipate, or even look ahead down the road, because they're too busy speeding along!

akkakk · 01/11/2024 15:01

taxguru · 01/11/2024 14:17

Exactly. Far too many drivers are obsessed with being right and their fragile egos. They need to chill out and be more helpful/courteous. By being idiots, they're not going to get to their destination any quicker, and it's insanely stupid to be an awkward "billy big balls" just to get to the next set of traffic lights in front of someone else by a car length or two.

No one is saying that the cars on the dual carriageway should never make space, that is a misconception... the discussion is about those coming down a slip road needing to observe the law / HC and adjust to fit in / give way / stop as necessary.

This has nothing to do with drivers being obsessed with being right - that is such a dangerous way to twist words as you imply that it is okay to do what you like despite the law as those who observe the right way of doing it are obsessed... no - it is a simple (and in this thread, many times repeated!) observation that the law is simple and it is the job of the person coming down the slip road to make the necessary adjustments - why, because that is the law - end of discussion!

I too have done IAM (26 years ago!) and have since gone on to do some very high-end advanced driving with regular instruction from top end police instructors etc. At no point would anyone advocate anything other than being thoughtful and observant and helpful... but none of that changes where the legal responsibility lies - and that is with the car coming down the slip road.

This thread is about where that legal obligation sits - and what is sadly very clear is that a vast number of drivers have zero idea of the law / HC which sets out what they are obliged to do.

as for observation etc. - I mentioned early on the advantage of looking through the upper part of the windscreen to give a more distant view for predictive planning instead of those who look more usually through the lower part of the windscreen - see just in front of their car and react to everything. There are parts of the motorway network in the UK where you can see over 1.5 miles ahead if you lift your gaze - gives plenty of time to adapt and ensure that simply put you are not anywhere near others causing issues... We could discuss fishing line techniques for alternating between near and far vision / bubbles of safety / other techniques for trunk roads, but this discussion is not about the OP and how she was driving - but about those wishing to join from the slip road and for them - it is simple, observe the law and give priority / give way / stop as necessary.

sandyhappypeople · 01/11/2024 15:33

akkakk · 31/10/2024 16:37

@sandyhappypeople

I'm not misunderstanding the law, the onus is on joining traffic to adjust their speed accordingly NOT to wait until the road is clear before coming out...

mmm - would love to see how you join a stationery motorway then 😁
how exactly do they join the motorway if the road is not clear even when traffic is flowing - if they are in your terms NOT to wait until the road is clear - that suggests that even if not clear they will still be joining?! Do you put your hand on your horn, or accelerate aggressively aiming to spin the other car out into lane 3 - do you have a different tactic if it is a lorry passing and therefore the road is not clear - or 6 lorries nose to tail...? Were you driving one of those cars on the slip road?! 😁

Of course the principle is to adapt and find a space where possible - but if not possible due to traffic levels, then the car doing the joining absolutely is obliged to stop if necessary - and to wait if necessary.

The whole point of the highway code and how it is structured is that it puts the onus on one party not both by giving the other party the priority - so the joining traffic adjusts if it can and otherwise stops.

mmm - would love to see how you join a stationery motorway then 😁
how exactly do they join the motorway if the road is not clear even when traffic is flowing - if they are in your terms NOT to wait until the road is clear - that suggests that even if not clear they will still be joining?! Do you put your hand on your horn, or accelerate aggressively aiming to spin the other car out into lane 3 - do you have a different tactic if it is a lorry passing and therefore the road is not clear - or 6 lorries nose to tail...? Were you driving one of those cars on the slip road?! 😁

I thought it was pretty obvious actually..

- that suggests that even if not clear they will still be joining?!

Yes.. that's exactly what happens with sliproads? what is difficult to understand about that? Unless you're one of those people that waits until there is nothing coming for at least a mile before daring to pull out at a tentative 30mph of course...

To explain it especially for you, seeing as you seem to have assumed I meant the opposite of what I actually said for some reason... they don't have to wait for the road to be 'clear' to join.. they only need a big enough gap to seamlessly merge.. as in they don't need the road to be empty to proceed out, they are always going to be merging with a live lane with traffic on it, it is up to the joining people to adjust themselves accordingly to fit in to available space.

akkakk · 01/11/2024 15:47

@sandyhappypeople

Ahhh - that is indeed clearer 😁
your initial post did sound as though you didn't need to wait for there to be enough room to join the trunk road and I had visions of your driving into traffic regardless which would be a bit painful!

I don't think that the word clear would normally be taken in that context to have to mean no traffic for miles - it would normally simply mean that there is enough clear space for the manoeuvre you are making - i.e. joining mid traffic...

but it is now clear and I suspect we are therefore saying the same thing - so glad you are not heading off into the side of a lorry!

ComingBackHome · 01/11/2024 15:49

taxguru · 01/11/2024 14:17

Exactly. Far too many drivers are obsessed with being right and their fragile egos. They need to chill out and be more helpful/courteous. By being idiots, they're not going to get to their destination any quicker, and it's insanely stupid to be an awkward "billy big balls" just to get to the next set of traffic lights in front of someone else by a car length or two.

Now I’m wondering who is supposed to be more chilled out….

The drivers in the slip road expecting people to move away and forcing their way through - because ‘like a zip’, ‘can’t stop on the slip road’, ‘there is no sign saying they have to give way’ etc…that has been said on this thread

Or the peoole on the motorway that dare not automatically slowing down for them and insist they can carry on because the Highway Code is on their side

😁😁

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