Budget: 'I can't afford to leave home on £1,500 a month' and other claims.

[dessertz]

The BBC are focussing on a few brave volunteers to see how they will be impacted by the budget. Today's headline focuses on a 23 year old apprentice who is hoping for a rise in pay so he can leave home:
BBC News - Budget 2024: 'I can't afford to leave home on £1,500 a month' - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyv8y68e25o. Surely £1500 would be enough to afford a flatshare in Newbury? I mean, it might not stretch to a batchelor pad, but a flatshare should be affordable. It's more than most students live on at the same age. He is being paid reasonably for an entry-level job, and his pay will presumably go up when he qualifies.

The other one I didn't understand (in the same article) is the single mum earning £150k who thinks she is being punished for having children because she's earning too much to qualify for child benefit. 🤔

Hopefully the beeb just took their comments out of context. 🤷‍♀️

With the council tax, utility, travel and general COL that we have now? What year was this?

That is a job description deliberately designed not to be fulfilled by a UK based applicant. They want this job to go to an Indian immigrant. The clue is BASIC. It’s only really taught any more in India and over there it’s taught to grad trainees.

Early 2000s - electricity 3x the price, council tax double ish so that's a couple hundred a month more. Food also up.

Again though, I wasn't living alone, I couldn't have afforded to live alone on my (good) starting salary - I could only manage because I had a boyfriend also contributing - and even then, it was tight. Just as it was for my parents in the early days, just as it will be for my kids in when they move out and start their first jobs.

Where is this idea that a 23 year old apprentice should be able to comfortably be living alone coming from?

I know little about this field other than knowing that my nephew definitely wasn't expecting a salary of 39k on graduation. Think he earns 26.

So you realise that your outgoings were much less than those of today, and you still needed input from your bf, and you were still broke? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Now, those little 1beds aren't available because most places go via an agent and a salary checker which means you often have to in as good position as you would be for a mortgage. In fact, the majority of younger people I know who have got a place recently have had to save 6 months rent upfront instead of a guarantor.

Those little 1 beds are now for professional weekend dads between partners. Not young graduates

So you realise that your outgoings were much less than those of today, and you still needed input from your bf, and you were still broke? I'm not sure what you're saying here

I'm saying that all these people wringing their hands and saying it's terrible an apprentice on minimum wage can't live in a flat alone, are seeing the past through rose tinted glasses. Fresh grads, let alone apprentices, have never been able to afford to live alone, and in fact, this guy is in no worse a position than many of us were 20 years ago financially.

I don't know where people get the idea all jobs in tech or IT are big money

Yes there are some high paying software jobs but there are also big cuts in that sector in recent times too - my son is 10 years into a hardware, networking and comms role - in London for well respected consultancy - he started out at 16 as an apprentice and is on £37 k - which seems around average- He could earn maybe around £6 to £8k a year working in that role in a more corporate city type environment suited and booted - but he has a few clients he does in house for that are like this and doesn't like the general vibe.

He also doesn't want a job working from home either, so it's finding jobs that have the right mix- I do hope not all those going into IT think they will be on huge bucks instantly and with no competition for roles.

I can’t feel sorry for people who feel poor but bring in over £100K.

Haven't RTFT but it seems there was an intention, by choosing someone so young (23), to try to influence people to think the housing crisis isn't a big deal.

Absolutely true that it isn't anything new, many 23 year olds being unable to afford their own home. Both my parents lived at home until marriage. They saved money to buy instead of throwing it away on rent. Obviously I appreciate not everyone can live at home, not least if there's abuse or other issues.

But anyway, that was decades ago. Some of their friends did move out before marriage - but same as several decades later when I moved out of home, they did bedsits and house shares.

Although admittedly in the past there was the option of squatting. That wasn't a criminal offence even in the 90s.

Also it's definitely harder now even with house shares. They're often much more expensive than they used to be. And landlords demand high salaries nowadays. When I was young and renting, you just paid the deposit and got the keys. No multiples of income were demanded.

However really, if the news outlets, wanted to demonstrate the terrible housing crisis of today, they'd have chosen older people. And that's the major issue.

It's all very well house sharing or a bedsit when young - an adventure and the first step to independence. It's not so appropriate when older and in need of the privacy of their own home.

There's increasing numbers of older people in this situation. In their 40s (and older) unable to afford a home. Single (including after divorce or relationship breakdown), disabled (but perfectly able to, and needing to, live independently). And families too - those on lower wages.

The UK urgently needs more council housing. Also end RTB (reducing it in today's budget is a positive step - ideally it would be scrapped entirely).

@RecycleMePlease no one is wringing their hands about an apprentice not being able to live alone. Living in a house share now costs a larger % of take home pay than it did 20 years ago. Rents have risen much faster than wages. As a result, the very basic standard of living that could be attained by someone in their early 20s in 2004 is much more difficult to reach now. That standard of living that many of us had back then (shared house, no savings, everything 2nd hand, but living independently with some kind of cheap social life) is, in many areas, unattainable for young people.

As an example, in 2004 I earned 16-18k and paid £450pm rent not inc bills, in zone 3 London. I took home about 1200 per month after tax. Sp rent was about 38% of take home). According to Bank of England inflation calculator, that is the equivalent of £789 rent and £29810 in salary today. But in the same area, rents in a shared house now are around 900-1100 for a room, and start salaries in a similar role are around 24k (1600 take home). So 56% of take home (assuming the lower rent of 900). The maths just doesn't stack up.

@LarryUnderwood I was doing a similar calculation earlier on my 2002 £15K salary, which would now be about £27K, so a take home of £1.9K with a plan 1 student loan payment, tax and N.I. My houseshare in London was £500 inclusive of bills, now it's £850 in that area. So after paying bus fare and food that gives the 2024 me on a very low London salary £700 to do with as I want. We all know rents have risen much faster than wages, but you're exaggerating when you say that the very basic standard of living that could be attained by someone in their early 20s in 2004 is much more difficult to reach now.

Also, I'm very familiar with London rents and unlike your 2004 rent that didn't include bills, the £900-1100 for a room you refer to in zone three would very likely include bills, so it's not a meaningful comparison. Unless you lived in Hampstead?!

@westisbest1982 yes if bills are included that definitely makes things easier. But I still don't see what I'm exaggerating if we agree that rent has risen much faster than wages? If that is the case, then surely it is objectively harder to reach the same standard of living as a greater proportion of salary is expended on rent/bills? Esp when all other costs have risen faster than wages as well.

TheDowagerCountessofPembroke · Today 13:26
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In 1995 I earned the equivalent of £18,000 a year. Just me on my own with no entitlement to anything. I lived in a room in a shared house as there was no way I could have afford even a bedsit then.
People moving out of home and having their own place straight away was only true for a couple of generations for working class people”

I bought a lovely flat in Woodford Green in 1987, in my early 20s. Very big sitting/dining room, kitchen, full bathroom, generous hall (had dining table in it), very big bedroom and generous balcony. Put down £2,500 deposit, organised by mortgage broker. It was £50,000. I earned £17,500 pa plus annual bonus.

You realise the £390 rent one is a Monday - Friday only rent right?

All the other 7 day a week rents are nearer the £800 mark.

That would have been a really high salary at the time for an early 20s given that I got paid that in my first graduate job in 2007! The inflation calculator shows it as being equivalent to around 50k today. Yes still much cheaper to buy a flat in those days but you’d have been in quite a privileged/unusual position with that salary at that age.

Have to say I agree with this, has anyone ever expected to be able to live very comfortably on an apprenticeship wage. At entry level most people will still be scraping by for a couple of years until they are qualified. I think expectations have changed a bit.

Having said that rental prices/ house prices are insane.