They don't want us to have a choice over death do they?

[Hunnymonster1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lyl8jrvlo.amp

This is so bloody annoying why are we so backward compared to other countries? Other countries have this sorted like america.In some states, belgium, holland, Switzerland.
They are not gonna allow this to happen are they? Which means the rich will go and pay dignitas and the poor will suffer. I am starting to get so annoyed by the mps of this country
Am I being unreasonable into thinking that they are backwards and should have given maybe the British public a referendum on a subject matter so important to individual people. If not a ref why is our country so backwards

You seem to determined to focus on those people that could request AD who arguably have something to live for. A depressed person can theoretically receive treatment and recover. Someone in debt can live a life behind their financial problems.

Because in Canada, people who arguably have something to live for are requesting AD. Already. Now. Really happening. Not a hypothetical future.

"The reports have received international attention for what they highlight, including patients being euthanized despite untreated mental illness and addictions, unclear medical diagnoses and suffering fuelled by housing insecurity, poverty and social marginalization."

https://theconversation.com/maid-and-marginalized-people-coroners-reports-shed-light-on-assisted-death-in-ontario-241661

Canada is one country. It is so bizarre to think that just because they rolled out a policy in a certain way there that we absolutely we will do the exact same thing. For example, if you didn't have a track 2 then this would help allay much of these fears

I was there, you were not.

1. Canada didn't start out with a track two.
2. I refer you back to the conflict of interest inherent when the lawmakers and the healthcare budget holders are the same people.

AD puts at risk entire classes of living, breathing, born people in a way that abortion doesn't. They aren't comparable.

Excellently put. Less of this false equivalence. I am pro choice to the core and I disagree with assisted dying. We are not funding care and support for vulnerable people that need as it is- imagine the awful abuses that will happen and imagine the incremental pressure on parliament to widen the terms again and again if this made legal.

For the record, the USA's law on "Death with Dignity" are state by state. Currently, only 11 states have enacted such laws.

I spent much of my working life as a Respiratory Therapist, watching people die. SO many of those deaths were horrendous. I've watched people crying and sometimes screaming in pain for days because a therapeutic dose of morphine, for instance, would also be the lethal dose. I have heard them pray for death. I left the field, and moved to psychiatric care because of it.

As for me, my sons have sworn to me that they will move me to a Death with Dignity state, help me establish residency there, and get the proper paperwork done should it become necessary. If I would not let my cat suffer agony, I do not want that for myself.

If you can’t take oramorph (it makes you vomit) and you can’t take regular pain options for end of life, you’re out of options and classed as a ‘complex pain’ case.

no they no longer put you on driver to knock you out. Not in our case anyway, it was delayed until the very last minute all in the name of ‘we must do no harm’. That’s what the consultant said to me.

i asked how in 2023 my mum was being left to suffer in agony, conscious only to experience excruciating pain.

The problem is, you only get to die once. You have no opportunity to improve things. Only the horror of what occurred and the sadness to endure afterwards for those who witnessed it.

I understand these are controlled drugs but they are controlled to the point of cruelty.

i wondered how that consultant slept at night.

That’s ridiculous to compare the two.

Terminal disease involves unimaginable suffering. You’d willingly put a loved one through immense pain because you see some sort of equivalence? What nonsense. Have you ever watched someone die in agony? And you have no ability to end their suffering, even though they plead with you?

You’re ok with that?

I think it is dangerous when combined with an era where a huge slice of the population stands to inherit life changing lottery win type amounts (IE many multiples of an average annual salary)

I don't know what the solution is though. I know that if I had dementia I don't think I would want to live indefinitely. But the how can we know what we would actually feel when we got to that point?

It should to begin with only be available to people with terminal diseases such as cancer.

Start there and alleviate the bloody suffering. It’s too much. If you’ve seen it, you can’t unsee it. It’s a trauma.

I'm so sorry you experienced this. I'm finding these accounts very worrying. I don't know how these doctors sleep at night either.

It's not false equivalence. It's about personal autonomy and a person's right to decide what happens to their body. You are supporting a situation where someone's expressed and fully informed wish is overridden because of perceived wider harms.

Banning AD leads to absolutely terrible abuse of people when they are often at their most vulnerable. They are kept alive against their wishes, often without any hope of providing sufficient pain relief or dignity.

It should end with only being available to people who are terminally-ill.

It won't.

I certainly am not. My post was in support of AD not against it

often without any hope of providing sufficient pain relief or dignity.

We never had this problem before Shipman 🤔 We should review how we deliver pain relief across the board because doctors seem over-cautious prescribing it these days.

My apologies

How do you know?

Let Me know the winning lottery ticket numbers would you for this weekend if you’re that good at telling the future.

Parallels with abortion here.
I personally would say if you sort out support for pregnant women and mothers.. regarding top notch medical care, workplace laws to protect them, funded good quality childcare, sure start centres etc etc... you would see a massive drop in the need for abortion. It wouldn't eradicate it because sometimes people just won't want to bring a child into the world for whatever reason.
So of course we should work on more support for mothers.. but abortion should also always be a legal right as we should all at the end of the day, have rights over our own bodies and access to the medical treatment we want.

Now apply that to assisted dying.

You have people on here arguing that we don't need assisted dying to be legal we just need better care for those dying or suffering with terminal illness long term..

We need BOTH.

Getting better palliative care is great but it doesn't erase the fact that we should all have the right to die with dignity when we choose.
I think it's outrageous that we love in this day and age yet still, based on some religious ideals of the past, we are expected to cling onto life regardless of the quality of it and whether we really want to or not.
This should be every person's individual choice.

If we can clearly see that it's right to give women the choice whether or not to bring life into the world.
Then we can see that it's right to give everyone the choice regarding how and when they wish to die.

Do you understand what a DNAR is? It means medical staff won't try to restart your heart if it stops beating, ie you are dead. They are not killing you by not starting CPR, you are already dead. Success rate after CPR are not good, especially over the longer term, even in hospital. Some survivors have bra8n damage afterward too. If you're elderly CPR is likely to result in broken ribs.

I can understand why people want assisted dying. I don't begrudge people a comfortable and pain free death. I'm fully aware that my religious views shouldn't impact upon others. I was a humane nurse and I always strived hard to treat pain and other terminal symptoms. I feel bad that we're at where we're at. I don't want to see the disabled or depressed pressurised to die either.

"The disabled"?
"The depressed"?

Are you sure you were humane?

@SerendipityJane www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305733648091

Unfortunately DNARs are being interpreted by some healthcare into 'do not treat' which then has a self fulfilling prophecy. Patients should participate in the decision to have a DNAR on their records - we know some healthcare areas systematically added DNARs onto patients to ease caseload.

Liz Carr's documentary on the BBC is really interesting on this. Such a difficult topic feel like everyone should be entitled to their views but do think a change in the law could have significant unintended consequences some of which would be horrendous.

I do think not resuscitating someone who wants to be is killing them (?) do you think all the people walking about now who have been resuscitated are 'dead'?
DNR's were put on lots of disabled people during the pandemic against their will. So disturbing. Think this shows what a slippery slope it is with assisted dying, when something as clearly boundaried as a dnr can be misused.

It's a free vote. Our MP is asking constituents for submissions. AD doesn't just affect the individual who chooses it, it will change the fundamental imperative that our laws uphold the principle of protecting life. I support the right of competent adults with terminal illness to have control over the way and time of their death, but is there another way of achieving this? Could provision of such assistance be de-criminalised if safeguards satisfied. Eg a voluntary sector organisation to do the assessments and provide the means, and no prosecution if they evidence they followed the safeguards?
Whoever suggested allowing a person with LPoA to decide - not unless the process of giving LPoA is more tightly managed. This is very open to abuse.
Any lawyers here with a view?
Any Doctors with a view on how such a radical change in their relationships with and responsibility to patients will play out?