If you had been told that your teen had been bullying a child with special needs...

[WaspyButt]

I mean - told by the school. If you had been told that your son has been bullying an autistic girl, who has no way to respond or stand up for themselves. And by bullying I mean openly ridiculing, going out of their way to humiliate and upset them in front of others, watching her face closely for signs of upset.

And if you had been told that this was the second child with special needs that your son had targeted, having bullied the only other autistic teen in the year who is also totally incapable of standing up for themselves.

What would you do?

What would you think about your child?

Just interested in thoughts really.

Someone who has raised a child like this is not going to be the most empathetic, emotionally intelligent person.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Haven't read the thread, but I'd be furious and ashamed, and also question my parenting and wonder what is really going on.

You've raised an amazing daughter!

I have boy in my class who is constantly hurting other children. Pinching, kicking, poking without and sign of remorse. I have brought this up with the parents several times and all the do it tell me that x child, who has SEND, has been hurting their child. They simply won’t believe that their boy could do this.

This happened to my son, he had no way of standing up for himself. A boy twice his size repeatedly attacked him, his mother would shrug her shoulders and call the school and me liars. Final straw was when he attacked my son severe enough he was sent to hospital with a concussion on school grounds, I got the police involved who did precisely jack shit. Mother went around town crying that her son was being victimised. School said I should tell my son to stay away from hers. I withdrew him from school.

I do agree that this type always knows exactly who to target.

I'm so sorry for your poor daughter.

I would be going to the school every day if it didn't stop to note every incident and asking how they school is fulfilling it's duty of care to your daughter. Make sure there's a paper trail.

I would be devastated and really worried. I would probably get some sort of mental health support for my son to get to the bottom of it.

Generally people are hostile towards the parents of the bully without taking the time to consider their perspective. There is a very narrow minded assumption and double standard that the bully's behaviour must come directly from a parental failing but the victims behaviour could never be attributed to anything (by this, I mean victims are often people with low self confidence, which is why the bully chooses them).

Ds1 hasn't bullied anyone that I'm aware but I always felt that he had that potential. He is a teen now and has that strong cocky alpha male type personality that worries me. He was wild as a toddler and preschooler, pushing grabbing toys etc. The judgement and hostility I sensed around me from other parents really really damaged my confidence and still does to this day. I was working twice as hard as any of them to parent a difficult child and constantly apologising but I gained very little respect.

In contrast Ds2 was an absolute sweetheart and people were so more pleasant to me and often complimented me on his behaviour. Poor DS2 got bullied in school for a while and it made me sick to my stomach. It was heartbreaking to witness the personality change. But I felt supported and could confide in others. Stepping back from it, I would rather be a victims mother any day than a bully's.

I'm so sorry for your poor DD OP.

As a mother of a girl with autism, I'd be horrified and feel ashamed of my parenting. This absolutely stems from the values instilled in the child and who instills values in kids? The parents, from a very young age.
It's not specifically about 'how to treat autistic people' but how to treat others in general.

It's incredibly obvious to me that 'What kind of attitude to life is kind & decent and what isn't' has not been taught to this child from an early age. No common decency or respect for others.

I would first ensure that I got to the bottom of the story. Schools can be awful and many teachers have very little understanding with regards to what really is going on.

if I established that my child had bullied another child, SEN or not, I could come down like a ton of bricks. Think long talks, complete screen ban and temporary abstinence from favourite activities. But was badly bullied as a child. I have raised my children to be strong and confident and stand up for themselves. I have also told them that if I ever find out that they have bullied anyone, they will spend months regretting it.

i am so sorry this has happened to your daughter.

I've heard of a family who know their, slightly younger, child is a bully and they don't seem to care because it means their child "isn't bottom of the pile".

This post has raised murderous thoughts! I would want to cause some serious harm to son and mother.
However, given we are more civilised than that, I would be engaging with the school to see both how they are going to deal with the bully and protect your child, while not affecting her education and life at school.
I would also be reporting parents of the bully to social services as they clearly have no parenting skills

Op I thought from the first post this wad your dd if it was my child I would think I've failed as a parent, feel deeply ashamed of myself as well of course my son.

However they sad truth is bullying is usually a symptom of something else eg child is used to beings bullied themselves or has trauma going to on or may have seen themselves to the point of they don't understand the child's needs.

It doesn't matter however and I would keep kicking up a stink about it for a both their sakes because something drastically horrid must be going on.

• has the boy been told your dd is autistic I would be very surprised if they did because that's your dd private information.

I think it's difficult op because on one hand, this boys behaviour could be the result of his parents values and behaviour (which they may not be aware enough of) or it could be part of his personality or it could be the dynamic of the group he's in and he's not strong enough to go against the grain or worse enjoys the power.

If it were me, I'd be having a lot of conversations about privilege, the importance of valuing difference and he'd be strongly disciplined with clear consequences. I'd also be trying to widen his social circle and be talking about what a "good man" and a "good person" look like and why it's important to be one of those and that accountability for yourself is part of that. I'd be trying to educate him on autism and try to help him understand and I'd he making him apologise to your dd in a way that you and she would feel comfortable with. I'd be so disappointed and I'd probably feel like I've failed in some way as a parent.

Depending on age it’s possible that she has no more control over him than school appear to have.
A 14 year old is very, very hard to stop if they don’t want to stop.
If he’s only 8 then it’s a bit different.
The trouble with this is that we can never know what the full background is. His home life might be awful, he might be being bullied and abused at home.
He might not, he might just be a little sod.
All you can do is focus on you own child. Doing everything you can to protect her and build her up. ☹️ I’m not really sure what the answer is.
I be devastated myself if my child had behaved that way. We’d be doing everything we could to change it and supporting any consequences from school. But I know that if I stepped in it would make a difference. Some mums can’t say that.

To me it's about teaching empathy rather than starting with punishing. Punishing a teen isn't going to help them understand or appreciate the difficulties a child with SEN faces, it's not going to help them see that child as a human being with feelings who deserves to be happy - so long conversations around that are required. Then the understanding that the behaviour is not acceptable and that if it is repeated again there will be serious consequences.

But unfortunately you can't be sure that there is any thinking going on by these parents. The child may well be having a very shitty upbringing by parents who don't care about anything but themselves and/or abuse him in one way or another.

The conversation I'd be having with my daughter is that people only behave like this when they are unhappy. That there is probably a reason he is behaving like this and it is nothing to do with her, He may have a very difficult home life and that is the reason he is behaving like this.(To make it clear this is not about there being something wrong with her).

Be clear of course that none of that makes his behaviour ok or acceptable. I would explain that bullies are often looking for a reaction and if she can avoid giving him what he wants then that may help the situation, if she is up to a retort 'you are so childish' with a withering look as she walks away then that is a possibility and will show that she can stand up for herself. With kids with ASD I think it's always worth clearly explaining ways they could handle things as even the very obvious may not occur to them.

The next thing of course is to report it every time, does she have someone at school she can speak to about this? That is vital and they need to be taking it seriously.

You're going to need to start retraining how he views and treats other people as a matter of urgency. He needs daily discussions on this and repercussions for any signs of bullying or judgemental attitudes towards other people.
You're going to need to be pretty harsh and make sure he understands the lifelong impacts of being bullied.

He needs to actually completey u-turn on how he treats the person involved and actually make them feel wanted, welcome and liked. It's his responsibility now to make reparation with the other child and help them be included in everything.
I'd even say it's his responsibility now to turn the other child's school life around and make him liked and respected by everyone else in school.

Watch this film and keep pausing it to discuss what's going on.

It's hard hitting but really very good.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8rh3i2

I'd be very disappointed and worried. Id also be concerned about my child - how is he feeling about himself that he thinks this is ok.

However teens are learning. Everyone says shock horror I wasn't like this - yet many kids behaved awfully at school and don't stay like that.

I'd start by talking to him as neutrally as possible, in his opinion what happened? What did he say? What was his mood? What is the response of other kids.

Btw I'm hoping there's a reason ie I would say I bullied a kid when I was treated awfully by others. Not saying its ok but it offers solutions. Or perhaps the school has a bullying culture.

Once established I'd say bullying is never ok, how might this teen with autism feel?

I'd be removing some privilege and saying this is too important to let it go. I'd look at Solutions to the issue. If it's as simple as, I did it for attention etc perhaps he needs to do something else for attention like become good at a sport. And I'd also be interested in whether others join in - this will tell you a lot about his motive and whether for example he needs separating from certain other similarly bad influences. If on the other hand it's just him, that would pose further questions.

Thank you all. Interesting views.

To answer a PP, even if it is not clear that DD is autistic, she is obviously very vulnerable, anxious and doesn't speak. Before he turned his attention to her he targeted the other autistic boy in the class. A very sweet boy who was also very obviously unable to defend himself. The bully picked exactly the things to say and do that would cause him obvious and public distress. Really upsetting behaviour.

Bully does have friends, but no group of bullies as such. Sometimes some of the other boys join in, but often not. The bully likes to paint himself as a victim - riled all the other children up when it was clear that I had spoken to the school - eg. "X's mum complained to the school about me." Assume that there is a level of manipulation going on behind the scenes.

Sorry didn't see your update about it being your daughter that's bullied so my advice is pointless.

I wish people would just be straight about the problem in hand from the offset instead of this silly mirroring of a situation to get responses.

Actually @UYN while I appreciate your point I don't think your advice is pointless. Someone could be reading this thread whose child is a bully and your response provides useful guidance. So not wasted at all.

My observation would be that I think bullies breed bullies. The parents themselves may have learnt to keep it well hidden, let's face it bullies often are sneaky - but I would suspect they are bullies themselves. To stop them, get them to take notice and deal with their son would likely need a strong forceful personality to deal with it probably with added sanctions.

I don't think this thread is going to help you, no one is going to post to say they wouldn't be bothered. You know what you expect the parent to do, all you're going to get is posters telling you the same thing

Maybe a better thread would be to ask people who wouldn't do anything why not and see if anyone answers on an anonymous basis

My Children aren’t bullies 🤞but have been on the receiving end and I know other children who have been bullied. I don’t think it’s necessarily true about the awful home life. I’m sure it is some of the time. Although you don’t know what goes on behind closed doors they seem like good people and their other kids are lovely. The parents are a bit despairing as they talk, they punish, removal of devices etc. They keep bullying though.

Not sure school is entirely helpful here as they only seem to address the most serious stuff. So they get away with a lot that parents aren’t informed about.