I really hate to be that person. Discrimination?

[Theredfoxfliesatmidnight]

I really hate to be the person drawing attention to this; for the record I believe men and women are equal, and I believe almost all UK employers believe this too. I may be wrong, I don't know, and am happy to be corrected by anyone with professional or first hand knowledge of this situation.

I, a female, recently went for a job in a traditionally male environment. The people on the shop floor that I interviewed with were very nice and very open; they made a point of not discriminating against females, which proved correct as they hired me, a woman amongst many males.

I was offered the job and accepted. I was very happy. I provided my British passport (I was born in the UK and have always lived here) and a NI letter giving my full National Insurance details.

Because I was married and divorced 25 years ago my HMRC NI letter is in my married surname. It gives exactly the same identity details; ie same address, same first name and middle name. Just married surname. These are the detais HMRC hold for me. I don't have HMRC letters in my maiden name as I changed it in 1999.

My UK passport gives my maiden name plus of course all other passport details including date and place of birth.

Despite these being true and accurate UK documents this place of work (a famous large UK business) will not accept them. I have to send in my marriage certificate (from 1999 ) to prove I am who I say I am. Annoying; but I get this, sort of. Apart from the fact I was divorced over 20 years ago. So now I have to get this (because I don't have this document ) and send it to them, never mind that I've never had to do this before for any other job, or to get UC which I do claim, or for banking, or to get in out of the country, or for anything else. I am 46.

But this is not enough. Now I have to send my birth certificate (a UK birth cert. They already have my passport showing these details). Plus something from HMRC with my maiden name on (which I don't have; all documents are in my married name from when I got married in 1999) No start date can be given until I provide these documents at my own expense.

I have said I have bank documents, bank cards, and Universal Credit documents all showing Maiden Name as claimant and Married Name as payee. I am a British citizen, always have been since birth and this fact is not in dispute. The offer of these documents has been refused as evidence.

I am irritated because I have provided a legitimate, genuine UK passport. And a legitimate, genuine, NI letter from HMRC with my birth date, address and name on it. This more than fulfils the Evidence to Work documentation they need. But now I have to pay to get my marriage certificate (£12.99 at my own expense) and a copy of my UK birth certificate) before I can even get a start date. I was meant to start on Monday but because they've now come up with this I have no determined start date.Is this fair? I feel that married men wouldn't have to provide their UK birth certificate if they have already provided a UK passsport .

Am I right to be pissed or is this standard procedure?

I feel that married men wouldn't have to provide their UK birth certificate if they have already provided a UK passsport .

Not even if they took their ex wife's name in marriage?

It's not because you are a woman, it's because you changed your name and need to provide the appropriate identity information.

Your official documents have both names so because you haven’t sorted it, you have to provide extra documents. You can only have one official name 🤷🏻‍♀️

You are right to be pissed off. Men never have this issue of jumping through hoops to prove they are who they say they are because they don't change their names. Ironically I have had a similar issue recently because I didn't change my name when we married and got a phone call from a financial advisor explaining they'd need my marriage certificate to prove I was married to DH before they could proceed with a financial instruction, as my bank account is in my maiden name, and the company can't accept that I am married to DH, even though they have seen my passport, which carries both surnames, and we have attended several meeting with them together.

It's an unnecessary hassle.

For many reasons women are probably more likely to have changed their name though so it does impact them more

A man who had changed his name would have to undergo the same process. It isn’t discrimination, women aren’t required to change their names upon marriage.

Possibly yes; but how often does that actually happen?

Well it is because she's a woman. Men aren't expected to change their surname when they marry. Women are. Men don't have the hassle of having to prove who they are in this way. Women do. Even if we don't change our names, the fact we are married to a man with a different surname is seen as something that needs to be double-checked. But the man and is name and marital status are taken at face value.

Is your passport in your current name?

Thank you. I have already said I have no issue providing a marriage cert. I have an issue having to provide my birth certificate, due to the fact I'm a 46 year old female who got married once, 20+ years ago.

It sounds horrible @Autumnweddingguest, and I'm sure I'd encounter the same issues from all my other financial institutions if I decided appropos of nothing to revert to my maiden name after 25 years!

It’s not compulsory for women to change their name on marriage.
”Expected” is just nonsense, really, in this day and age.

I actually agree with you. This policy will negatively impact women more than it will men, because of the propensity for females to change surnames on marriage.

is your job one requiring any kind of security clearance? If so I imagine this might explain things.

To reiterate. To start a new job; one has to provide a UK passport and evidence (a letter) of NI number. That is all. That is the legal requirement. No more. If you are a British citizen.

I am complaining because I have to provide a birth certificate at my own expense. This is in no way a legal requirement. I am being asked for this because I got married and my married name is on my HMRC details. Despite having a UK passport in my maiden name, they want to see a copy of my birth certificate (which can be ordered by anybody and is no proof of identity) as well. They do not do this for men.

Please can I ask for educated or informed responses only. "Wot I think" responses are not very helpful, sorry. Many thanks x

Rarely, but that doesn't make it discrimination.

However, marriage isn't the only reason people change their names and as long as they treat men the same or all non married women who have changed their names the same, then it's not discrimination.

It would be perfectly normal for education, the NHS, probation service and local authority roles (anything with a DBS, basically)- and I had to have a credit check on top of those for working in an accountancy practice.

They have to be able to show that you are the person you say you are, which includes evidence that you were married/divorced.

Might have been easier to notify HMRC of your name change to match everything else, though.

Thank you for your kind response. No there is no kind of security clearance required. The job is in a hardware store.

Please can I ask for educated or informed responses only. "Wot I think" responses are not very helpful, sorry. Many thanks x

OMG climb out of your arse.

You cannot control what others choose to post unless you've actually bought Mumsnet, and Justine forgot to tell us?

If you have a passport you don't need to supply a government issued letter with ni number on.

You supplying that with a different name has probably 'forced' them to do further checks unfortunately

www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work

No, my passport is in my maiden name.My HMRC details have exactly the same address, date of birth, first and middle name. Just a different surname corresponding with the myriad of financial banking details I've already displayed to them

Yeah I've only ever given an employer my passport. Why are they asking for NI proof? You just tell them your number surely. Or give them a P45?

Ah ok that's the issue then op. They cannot verify your ID as what you have supplied is not valid (stating the obvious I know). So as this can happen to males too, and they have offered you the role if you meet the legal ID requirements, there is no discrimination in EL terms.

If its a retail store it's possible they've been burned before.

If you’re a British or Irish citizen
If you’re a British or Irish citizen, you can prove your right to work in the UK with either of the following:

• a British passport
• an Irish passport or passport card

Your passport or passport card can be current or expired. If you do not have a passport or passport card, you can prove your right to work with one of the following:

• a UK birth or adoption certificate
• an Irish birth or adoption certificate
• a certificate of registration or naturalisation as a British citizen

You must also give your employer an official letter or document from a previous employer or a government agency. For example, you could use a letter from HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or the Social Security Agency in Northern Ireland. The letter must show your name and National Insurance

Unfortunately you are not correct. I have used your own link to show where you have gone wrong (my highlights in bold)

For those that did not like my "Wot I think" comment - this is why.

Well, that’s patently ridiculous then.
There are many groups of people who may fall foul of this sort of policy, and often they will be people with protected characteristics: trans people with GRCs who have HMRC records pre- transition; people with a passport from a foreign state who nevertheless have the right to work in the uk and for various reasons spell their name slightly differently in the UK/ for HMRC purposes… and mainly, women, who get married and take a man’s name.

YADNBU. I just don’t know how you’d challenge it. Asking for an Impact Equalities Assessment is probs not going to speed the process of you starting, up ;)

“I don't have HMRC letters in my maiden name as I changed it in 1999.”

“My UK passport gives my maiden name”

So you’ve not paid any tax since 1999? Surely your current tax records should mirror your current name (as shown in your passport)? Don’t you have a payslip with your NINO and maiden name on it?

The employer is perfectly entitled to request further identification if the ones you’ve provided do not match. You wouldn’t even pass money laundering checks as a client at my law firm with documents that didn’t match,

It's annoying but it's for proving your right to work in the UK.
As you have documents in two different names they have to do a full check or could be liable for, I believe, a £60,000 fine if it turned out you didn't have the right to work in the UK.
They're following govt guidelines