I really hate to be that person. Discrimination?

[Theredfoxfliesatmidnight]

I really hate to be the person drawing attention to this; for the record I believe men and women are equal, and I believe almost all UK employers believe this too. I may be wrong, I don't know, and am happy to be corrected by anyone with professional or first hand knowledge of this situation.

I, a female, recently went for a job in a traditionally male environment. The people on the shop floor that I interviewed with were very nice and very open; they made a point of not discriminating against females, which proved correct as they hired me, a woman amongst many males.

I was offered the job and accepted. I was very happy. I provided my British passport (I was born in the UK and have always lived here) and a NI letter giving my full National Insurance details.

Because I was married and divorced 25 years ago my HMRC NI letter is in my married surname. It gives exactly the same identity details; ie same address, same first name and middle name. Just married surname. These are the detais HMRC hold for me. I don't have HMRC letters in my maiden name as I changed it in 1999.

My UK passport gives my maiden name plus of course all other passport details including date and place of birth.

Despite these being true and accurate UK documents this place of work (a famous large UK business) will not accept them. I have to send in my marriage certificate (from 1999 ) to prove I am who I say I am. Annoying; but I get this, sort of. Apart from the fact I was divorced over 20 years ago. So now I have to get this (because I don't have this document ) and send it to them, never mind that I've never had to do this before for any other job, or to get UC which I do claim, or for banking, or to get in out of the country, or for anything else. I am 46.

But this is not enough. Now I have to send my birth certificate (a UK birth cert. They already have my passport showing these details). Plus something from HMRC with my maiden name on (which I don't have; all documents are in my married name from when I got married in 1999) No start date can be given until I provide these documents at my own expense.

I have said I have bank documents, bank cards, and Universal Credit documents all showing Maiden Name as claimant and Married Name as payee. I am a British citizen, always have been since birth and this fact is not in dispute. The offer of these documents has been refused as evidence.

I am irritated because I have provided a legitimate, genuine UK passport. And a legitimate, genuine, NI letter from HMRC with my birth date, address and name on it. This more than fulfils the Evidence to Work documentation they need. But now I have to pay to get my marriage certificate (£12.99 at my own expense) and a copy of my UK birth certificate) before I can even get a start date. I was meant to start on Monday but because they've now come up with this I have no determined start date.Is this fair? I feel that married men wouldn't have to provide their UK birth certificate if they have already provided a UK passsport .

Am I right to be pissed or is this standard procedure?

Yes, as you are legally entitled to use both or either name. I actually have my HMRC & child benefit in married name, but almost everything else in maiden name, apart from one bank account that is in married name, and that's only because the cashier at the bank took it upon himself to change it despite me telling him not to. He said I was married so he had to change it, and didn't believe me that women are 'allowed' to keep their birth surname 🙄

Just because you are female does not make it discrimination you can try and argue yourself out of paper bag still doesn't make it discrimination

Sure but it’s a woman’s choice to do this.

Yes it is, but let's not discount social conditioning and expectations as well as norms a few decades ago

Fines are too high for employers to take the risk. The introduction of IDVT checks for RTW also means that if things don’t match on official documents then more is required.

It’s not discriminatory or ridiculous. It’s legal employment checks. Imagine if everyone was just allowed to use their discretion for this sort of thing, utter chaos. If you want a job you do them, like any other new recruit.

You have created this issue by producing ID which is not up to date and contains conflicting information. You need ID that is photographic and with your correct full name on it
That is not the company making up rules that is the law and there to ensure you have the right to work in the UK.

I have had top government security clearance twice and not had to provide this amount of ID!

I'm going through SC currently for a new job, and I've had to supply:

• Passport
• Driving licence
• About a billion bank statements (must show name and address)
• Last 3 payslips (must show NI number)

Erm, think that's it. I've never married, cohabited or or changed my name - there must be quite a bit more if you have.

Ah the old cliches used when women don't want to use their old brain 'it is society that made me do it'

Do women ever think for themselves?

I don’t think this is any sort of discrimination: going by two different names is a red flag and they require proof and this is there processes, you are getting annoyed at perfectly legitimate requests. You should have ensured you had the same name everywhere. When I married I changed my name everywhere except my driving licence…I didn’t own a car and virtually never drove. Years later, divorced but still using my married name for everything else I wanted to hire a car. I ended up having to take my marriage, divorce and birth certificates on holiday to hire the car! It took a bit of a fafth to sort it with DVLA too. This is your issue to sort

My DH did this and had to jump through these hoops a couple of times.
It‘s an artefact of society that affects women disproportionately because of sexism (and women’s decision making frankly in the late 20th/21st century)rather than sexism being a cause of the company policy - which is standard.

This wouldn’t have happened if you’d just informed hmrc of your name change.
Your hmrc details say you’re not who you say you are. “But it’s the same address” and? It’s not the same details.

Have you had a different job since changing your name? Because if so then the employers were at fault for not asking for this proof.

Ring hmrc and change your name. It’s not rocket science.

I don't have the hassle of proving who I am, because I didn't change my name. The OP didn't have to either.

Read it again. I am not incorrect.

When you provide photo ID it is to support information you have submitted. If your photo ID doesn’t support your NI details ( absolutely essential for employment in the UK due to the massive fines and legal implications of employing illegal immigrants) then you will need further legal documents to support the details you have submitted.
In the same way you would be unable to travel if your passport does not match the details on your travel documents ( visa, ticket).
To simplify things in the future just change your name on your NI back to your maiden name.

The uk government could solve all this by leaving the maiden name on all documents as well as the married name.
It happens in other countries.
My residency card for France has both my maiden and married surname on it.

Oh please.

Give me strength.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/right-to-work-checklist/employers-right-to-work-checklist-accessible-version

Relevant sections are list A - any one of these and Step 2 - check, which references checking why if names are inconcistent

Ultimately the marriage cert should be enough, but as they are liable for a hefty fine if it turns out you don't have the right to work, it's up to the employer if they want to conduct more checks.

I’ve changed my name, as my degree is in my old name when I apply for jobs I also have to provide birth certificate etc in my old name, I also made sure to keep a few things in my old name before I changed it, so I have some old pay slips with my NI number and my old name.

It sounds like your first mistake was giving them an HMRC NI letter - these aren’t needed these days, you just provide your NI number, you don’t have to ‘prove’ it with a letter.

OP: I have been offered more than this one job so I will most likely just take something else from a more educated employer. But it's a shame, as I wanted the job I got. And it's a shame for them, as I would have been good at the role, but their employment process is so male centric they can't even see it.

So you're turning down a job you actually want, just because the employer is fulfilling its legal requirements and trying to avoid a potential £50,000 fine?

Anyone who has changed their name will have the same hurdles. Men don't change their names on marriage (or not very often).

The requirement to prove your identity can't be modified because women change their names when they get married - that's a societal norm not a legal requirement.

That said, I don't think your new employer knows how to check identity properly!

The issue though is that you’ve provided two identity documents with different names, so they need a third document to verify the name change. That is standard.

The same thing has happened to me and whenever I have to provide a document that was in my married name (double barrelled and changed through deed poll, then back through deed poll a few years later) I provide the deed polls to evidence both name changes so they know I’m the same person.

I do the same for my son whose name was changed by Adoption and then by deed poll a few years later. If I use a document that has an old name on it, I provide evidence of the name change.

"That said, I don't think your new employer knows how to check identity properly!"

The company is following their obligations perfectly well.

Names don't match up so they need evidence of why. And it's possible that if their suspicions have been raised so e.g. they feel op was being a bit difficult and questioning a bit too much of the process for needing to supply a marriage certificate (not saying this is the case!) then as additional belt/braces they have decided to do the HMRC doc + full birth cert.

I would wonder if they have fallen foul previously so they are really hot on this.

This. Nothing to do with being a woman.

OP you can use 2 surnames but why would you provide ID in a different name to the other evidence you're providing. You must have know this would cause queries. I use both married and maiden surnamea so i make aure I have 1 ID in each name, and i have extra copies of marriage certificate for when required.