Why does life seem to shit in the UK

[RosieLeaLovesTea]

Endless threads about schools going down the pan and poor behaviour in schools making teachers want to leave.
NHS waiting lists and quality of care medical is poor.
housing market market in crisis and affordability of housing

I read the threads and it feels like life in the UK is really shit. Plus crap weathe for 8 months of the year.

how did we get here snd what is the solution?

I don't think thats entirely accurate for european healthcare systems, you might pay to see a GP but your re treatment will be free subject toins top up that employees and employers pay into....

We pay for dental and eye care, prescriptions and increasingly, for those that can afford it, paying for things available on the NHS but no longer available within reasonable time frames.

Greed by private companies and lack of attention to detail on infrastructure, planning does take too long but of course it will, we don't have much free space, so people organise and complain.

We don't, overall have high taxes, still lower than most of Europe and much lower than France.

PFI ??? that costs the NHS less than 7 days worth of spend per year, approx £2 billion.

Travel costs? privatised with profits allowed to go overseas.... less subsidy too.

Like i said up thread, we rely on the 'market to fix things but all business is interested in is profit, regardless of the cost to the consumer... more profit to made by stringing things out.

The average Joe bloggs in France, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium and Scandinavia has a better quality of life than the average Brit. The top 10% of Brits have an excellent quality of living, but income inequality is a much bigger factor here. And then the likes of Italy and Spain - the average overall is slightly poorer than the UK - but they have far better weather which makes a huge difference culturally and to physical and mental health.

Over the past 50 years basically every British government with the part exception of Blair, has decided it’s better to secure the wealth and lifestyle of the top 5-10% rather than enact policy that wouid make the quality of life of the masses keep pace with their continental neighbours.

It's the basics that we're struggling with and people need their basic needs met.
Shelter
Food
Health system
Policing
It all seems inadequate currently.
All this impacts on our quality of life.

I think that's overly simplistic and trivialising what people are experiencing.

And it's not about being MC or not either, per PP

I've always been poor. But I am feeling squeezed in a way now that feels almost intolerable. The 'I'm alright Jack' rhetoric, people's brash attitudes, the lack of community spirit is depressing. Ironically I think it all started with the 'We're all in this together' BS, gaslighting rhetoric of the David Cameron era. We were so NOT all in it together. The 'haves' have more, and more, and more. The 'don'ts' have less, and less and less. And that's enough by itself, but there's a superhyper capitalist "golden leaf falling to the ground is the same as a poor child dying" sort of background dialog to it all that feels cruel to me.

I'm also seeing a world wide crisis of poor leadership, MPs with no real principle, appealing to what donors, lobbyists, shareholders, big business and media tycoons want and not the wants of those they're supposedly representing.

Politicians who are increasingly removed from ordinary people. A media that is corrupt. Services being squeezed and increasingly restricted. Lack of opportunity.

Houses in the UK being bought up by big business abroad, restricting supply and house prices out of reach of the young, unless they have mum and Dad or the grandparents to help them with a deposit causing wider entrenched social inequality. Increasing nepotism in industries that pay well and provide opportunity.

University debts for the young, coupled with sky high private renting prices before they have a foot on the ladder going anywhere at all. Food banks and constant notices to donate food in shops. I also find a local shop for basics costs a LOT more proportionately of my money.

Nasty blaming rhetoric aimed at the vulnerable, disabled, struggling. Xenophobic language being used by politicians. Constant Left vs Right political rhetoric bleeding into and contaminating everything now. Having to feel you need to take a position for/against something with no shade of grey. Being pushed into an either/or stance. Lack of agreement, cooperation and working together between politicians downwards. It always seems adversarial now.

I don't watch TV and don't listen to radio. But I don't have to. That hasn't made a difference. It's there whether you try to engage with it or not.

But I do take the point and agree that people do not share enough of the positive, absolutely.

Not without mindless optimism no!

But investment in new technologies for the inevitable global problems to solve (so a renewed respect and desire for science) would help.

Taking in your neighbours bins, or giving them a lift so people don't feel so isolated from others. Getting back to admiring people for what they do not what they own or look like.

I suspect it's more likely to end up people fighting in supermarkets over toilet roll like in lockdown.

But everyone has a choice, become a toilet roll scrapper or part of the solution.

Look, I am from Spain. That sunny country where everyone is supposed to be happy and carefree.
It is shit down there, too.

Yes exactly. People that shut down the argument that mass immigration could be causing any issues are so unbelievably thick. Maybe they should read things other than the Guardian?

But I do take the point and agree that people do not share enough of the positive, absolutely.

I think a lot of people try to - they just get shouted down by the perpetual miseries who seem to get their kicks from complaining about everything.

I really don't think MN is a good place to be unless you have robust mental health and are able to brush off the negativity and rudeness, because it seems some posters can't stop themselves from finding something to whinge about.

I'm not even talking about major things - some people just misery plop on every single thread, no matter the subject!

Getting back to admiring people for what they do not what they own or look like.

Omg yes!!!

I remember this sort of shifting (from my point of view) it happened after Princess Diana and Mother Teresa died. There seemed to be this vacuum and my memory is the attention of popular media shifting in the UK to Victoria Beckham. Media spotlight on all her outfits and at the time, her high street fashion. Shortly after we had the phenomenon of Reality television and then it became gushing inanely over people for just being there. Just being famous. The rise of the Z list celebrity was born. No more a focus on what people did. But what they look like, their clothes, their love lives, their parties, their clubbing and other mindless trivia. If you were on TV for two minutes you were worth glamourising and thinking about and knowing about

I find it depressing that people who post to complain about him, can’t be bothered to spell Keir Starmer’s name correctly.

It's forced upon on the sense that you open social media apps and bam, everywhere

I follow a lot of book and jigsaw accounts (wild I know!) And there are very few normal, like me, without perfectly curated photos. I have book piles all over, I feel shit when I see there large libraries and huge reading seats or their custom shelving for jigsaw boxes and large jigsaw only tables or those that have thousands and thousands of followers and get gifted free, limited edition books and I miss out on pre sale

I know that's down to me but I'm.lretry good at snapping out of it, others aren't and think they will get the perfect home by buying everything Mrs Hinch recommends etc

But it's a pointless note unless we ask ourselves:

Why do we have so much immigration? Do we in fact need it? How would the economy perform without it? Can we really thrive with less immigration? What about pensions? Businesses?

Is part of the problem the low birth rate? Why is the indigenous birth rate so low? Is it because of pack of social mobility or a weird paradox of people having more asset wealth but still having less liquid wealth? Is women having more education part of the problem of low birth rate, needing ethnic women who have more children to come here from abroad? How have succeeding governments helped plan longitudinally for infrastructure to accommodate greater levels of immigration, more housing, NHS improvements etc etc? Have they even done this?

Are we driving immigration by funding destabilisation in other parts of the world whilst hypocritically bemoaning the resultant dispossessed people coming here?

Is our foreign policy part of the problem? Do we focus on FP enough during elections? Or do we tend to overlook it in favour of domestic issues?

Our humanitarian aid budget? Should we be concentrating on improving foreign aid and building socioeconomic partnerships with countries that may not be within our traditional sphere of influence to try and prevent mass immigration from those places? What about the environment? Are we imposing green policy on countries that need to expand industrially? Are people coming here from countries disproportionately affected by global warming caused mainly by us? I mean you can go and on.

People who just say 'too many people here and it's causing issues' I think most people can see that. But they don't see it simplistically. What is our role in driving it it and are we ever sufficiently prepared for it? Do we in fact need it, or don't we?

The top 10% in the UK pay the highest rates of tax in Europe per the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Average earners in the UK pay the lowest rates of tax in western Europe per the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

In Belgium you pay 40% tax at 12000 euros average income. In Portugal/Spain/France/Italy 30% plus tax rates kick in at levels between 20,000 euros and 30,000 euros a year. Average earners in the EU pay much more tax than in the UK.

They have cheaper land and electricity in Europe, cheaper infrastructure etc. I think that helps them.

The higher earners in the UK get screwed on marginal tax rates of 62% and would pay less tax in most western European countries.

I have just moved back from Canada to the UK and it was shit there too.

Filthy, weed, drugs, opioid crisis, homelessness, nobody can afford a house, guns!!!, carjacking, the list goes on and on.

The moment I landed back in the UK I felt so happy I was safe. Everywhere is so clean compared. Houses are more affordable. Salaries are meh but that’s my only gripe.

We don’t live in a war zone & we don’t have extreme weather like hurricanes. We don’t have extreme wildfires.

Come on guys, surely you’re grateful for that?

The tax system in the UK means that anyone earning less than 65k a year consumes more government services than they pay for on average. This means that each low wage immigrant needs subsidising by the wider tax base (eg those earning over 65k a year)

The office for budget responsibility calculated that each low wage immigrant who stays in the UK until the age of retirement requires a subsidy of 115,000 over that period because they consume more costly government services than the taxes they pay.

The office for budget responsibility further calculated that if the low wage immigrant stays in the UK after retirement the cost to taxpayers/required subsidy is 483,000.

These are the governments own official figures.

Perhaps before someone is admitted to the UK we need to think very carefully if we as a country want to give them what amounts to a 483,000 gift.

Perhaps instead of subsidies for low wage immigrants we should have more high wage immigrants earning over 65k who are net taxpayers?

Perhaps we should also reduce low wage immigration so education housing and healthcare resources are used less intensively and more available to the existing population of the country.

Brexit.

Ah the traditional beginning-of-winter "Life is shit in the UK" thread.

We are very fortunate to live in the UK. Very fortunate. If you can't appreciate why then you're not looking hard enough. America suffers from unbridled gun-crime and mass shootings at schools - no thanks. It's not the wonderland that people who have only ever been there on holiday seem to think it is. I don't get why the US is always compared to the UK in these types of threads anyway - would you really want to live somewhere with no national health service or social care safety net? No, of course you wouldn't. Poverty in the US is a whole different level to poverty in the UK and unless you've seen it you can't really moan about life "on the breadline" here. There's just no comparison.

We have beautiful countryside, a good sense of humour, interesting cultural traditions. Lots of rich history for kids to get immersed in. There aren't dangerous animals trying to kill you all the time, like in Australia. Australia also has a very misogynistic attitude towards women. I would find that unbearable. In fact, most Southern countries in Europe have entrenched misogynistic attitudes. A woman's place is in the kitchen and at home, and these cultural expectations are the things people don't see when they go there on holiday.

We are free to exercise our rights and be who we are without fear - real fear of repression and brutal punishment, or community judgement. We value equality, freedom of speech and expression and we are animal lovers. Many European countries are horribly cruel towards animals (including France, Spain and in places, Germany.) Some rural communities in Europe are rife with domestic violence, and people often drink and smoke themselves to death in farming communities. It's not the idyll it appears.

Again, cultural expectations in Europe are very different - people tend to be more conservative in their outlook and you will be more harshly judged if you step out of societal norms. No thanks - I want to be left the fuck alone to do what I want, how I want.

Would you like to live in China? Try being poor there. India? The levels of child poverty there are just awful. Perhaps Afghanistan might be better? Or you could try Africa, where people can't get access to fresh water and many live in makeshift slums if they are "poor."

Here in the UK you don't have to worry about any of these things. Sometimes you get a bit hacked off at the rain but that's ok - we like to moan about the weather. We've honestly got nothing real to moan about compared to other parts of the world.

Economy not being doing great and yes since 2008 - but cost of living post covid just gone up and up and even when it's supposedly leveling off still feels bad to many.

Lack of investment and harm austerity did -services and infrastructure are creaking.

Demographics - supposedly deaths exceeding births means tipping point in economic outlook downwards for countries who've had it - we've just hit this or will be soon - immigration may save us here but bring other problems.

Media and political messaging - it's endlessly negative.

NHS and education have been building up problems for years if not decades and they either get ignored or ideologically driven solutions are imposed which often make situation much worse. Housing and social care have also been known problems.

Also I think calibre of politicians has declined or is more visible - many seem well dim.

Personally though we go out less than ever we're relatively happy - and working round problems like lack of subject teachers best we can as we have the endless bus and train issues last few years or lack NHS dentist and waiting lists and ever rising food bills and energy bills.

100% 👏👏

Would you like to live in China? Try being poor there. India? The levels of child poverty there are just awful. Perhaps Afghanistan might be better? Or you could try Africa, where people can't get access to fresh water and many live in makeshift slums if they are "poor."

Of the more idiotic statements on this thread.... why didn't you add in Saturn or Pluto? not nice living there either....

We are a "developed" country, please compare with our continental neighbours, not 3rd world countries or ones with ruinous tyrannical leaders.

Why can my friends in Portugal, France and Italy get surgery and dental care either free or at 50% the price we pay and don't have to wait 3 years for it?
Why have we got potholed roads? the most expensive trains in Europe? less HCP's, beds and equipment than any comparable country in Europe? our kids wait 3 years for MH treatment...

In fact, most Southern countries in Europe have entrenched misogynistic attitudes. A woman's place is in the kitchen and at home, and these cultural expectations are the things people don't see when they go there on holiday

BS, total rubbish, i worked in southern France, my brother in Malaga and then in Greece, we would often visit each other, those attitudes, just as in the UK, are uncommon now a days.... but didn't a leading Tory Minister say women should stay home and have children?

I appreciate your post a lot. I would like to know the argument in favour of immigration though, if those are the official government figures since people tend to posit the idea of large scale immigration being necessary.

Perhaps instead of subsidies for low wage immigrants we should have more high wage immigrants earning over 65k who are net taxpayers?

Perhaps we should also reduce low wage immigration so education housing and healthcare resources are used less intensively and more available to the existing population of the country.

All valid proposals.

Why do successive governments seem to support MI either outwardly or by omission of tackling it then?

but didn't a leading Tory Minister say women should stay home and have children?

I don’t know but I thought Jeremy Hunt said that SAHM were bad for the economy last year

In what way?

Miriam Cates said that society should adopt strategies to allow women to stay at home with young children. Obviously that's not going to fly given the economic imperative to have as many adults in work from either side of the house.

I appreciate your post a lot. I would like to know the argument in favour of immigration though, if those are the official government figures since people tend to posit the idea of large scale immigration being necessary.

We have more over 65 yr olds than under 15 yrs old. In the 60s there were 5 workers to 1 pensioner now it’s 3:1 & not far off 2:1. Obviously this isn’t sustainable & we have a capitalist system hence immigration.