Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

6500 extra teachers....

479 replies

noblegiraffe · 05/10/2024 15:11

This was one of Labour's main headline pledges. They were a bit vague on the details - is this 6500 more than the amount of teachers that are currently needed, or 6500 more than the Tories managed to recruit, which was well below the amount currently needed? I don't know.

Anyway, where are we at?
Teachers were awarded a 5.5% pay rise as recommended - good.
Ofsted single word judgements scrapped immediately - good.
PPA can now be taken from home - meh, maybe good for primary
Performance related pay scrapped -good

The situation:
Teacher trainee recruitment targets were massively missed again for this September so schools will continue to have unfilled vacancies next September.

The projected fall in pupil numbers due to decreasing birth rates won't be as big as expected so more primary teachers will be needed (and this will impact school funding as fewer pupils meant there was going to be potentially spare cash in the system).

Potentially more pupils in the state system from private could be balanced out by returning private teachers to state schools. That will take some time to shake out.

PGCE mentors are now expected to do 20 hours of training this year to be a mentor, and lead mentors 30 hours, regardless of how experienced they are. This is putting people off being mentors so PGCE providers are struggling to find placements for what few trainees they have.

Workload for teachers is increasing due to lack of funding, and lack of teachers, so they have less time to devote to training teachers. The lack of experienced teachers available to train them is also a problem. At the same time, the demands of training new teachers on schools has increased (e.g. the NQT year is now two years of support and reduced timetable and schools also need to provide PGCE students with 4 extra weeks of intensive training and practice).

This is an extremely urgent issue, and a key government pledge, so why all the airtime about anything to do with education is being taken up with bloody VAT is beyond me.

The impact of the lack of teachers in the system is huge. Inability to recruit teachers means kids have supply and cover teachers which affects their learning, but also their behaviour across the school as they become disaffected in those subjects. Experienced teachers are not only having to plan lessons for the supply teachers and sometimes mark for them too, they are having to pick up the pieces and fill in the gaps when they teach the classes the next year. Heads of Department are spending huge amounts of time fielding legitimate complaints about the quality of teaching. Advertising for positions that cannot be filled is expensive.

What do Labour need to do to turn this around?

6500 extra teachers....
6500 extra teachers....
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Menopausalprincess · 05/10/2024 20:24

PepperSauce · 05/10/2024 16:05

Why is performance related pay bad?

I absolutely agree with you on this. In my experience, everyone knows who the good teachers are, and I think they deserve to be paid more to recognise that. The kids and the parents know (sorry if that’s a surprise to any teachers reading…), so it must be recognised among the staff - and no it’s not just to do with results, although over time, and recognising the ability of the classes they teach, I imagine there’s a strong correlation.

newmummycwharf1 · 05/10/2024 20:24

Sherrystrull · 05/10/2024 20:13

Children can mark their own homework in a lesson.

I give homework an acknowledgment stamp and that's it. How do I know if they did it themselves of got their granny to do it?

Wow

privatenonamegiven · 05/10/2024 20:26

Sherrystrull · 05/10/2024 20:21

When did I say I wasn't marking homework? I understand that it's important in encouraging children to complete it.

However it is very unclear what support the child had. Did they complete it independently? Did someone tell them the right answers? Did someone dictate a sentence or write it for them to copy? Homework is rarely representative of class work. It's usually much better or much worse. Therefore it's meaningless to me in terms of work completed.

I never said you did. My post was not meant as personal criticism - just pointing out the importance of marking properly occasionally.

I standby the fact that you can, if you know your pupils, know what is their work or not..how much input they got etc. isn't the point here.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

MissRoseDurward · 05/10/2024 20:26

How about the government actually use private schools more? Eg fund sending some children to local private schools. Radical maybe

A government did. It was called the Assisted Places Scheme. The Thatcher government introduced it, Tony Blair's government abolished it.

Papyrophile · 05/10/2024 20:28

I got QTS at 52, and was never interviewed. Now I am 67, and still fully functional, I would not expect a job offer but I am sure I could be of use within the system. Free, because I receive state pension. Not for 40 hours a week, or with ridiculous commitments, but yes, under the right circumstances, I would consider it again. I taught citizenship, PHSE and have a background as a financial/pension advisor. All the non curricular stuff that it would be useful for 14-17 year olds to know. And I can put a condom on a cucumber without blushing.

newmummycwharf1 · 05/10/2024 20:29

cardibach · 05/10/2024 19:59

I’d suggest it not be set at all. The only t8me it’s valuable is in prep for exams - personal revision.

I see. From a personal perspective, as a student, homework helped me with consolidation, helped my parents engage with what I was learning, discipline to sit and focus and also loved to please and impress my teacher - so their feedback was valuable.

I can see that what is good for the work life balance of a teacher will not always chime with what is ideal for students but golly - these decisions should not be driven by the factors being discussed in this thread. What is the best educational experience for kids and then we work back from there

And another reason why there should be diversity in educational offerings so parents can choose the sort of school with the sort of teachers and ethos they subscribe to

stomachamelon · 05/10/2024 20:30

@Papyrophile we would snap you up!

FrippEnos · 05/10/2024 20:31

Menopausalprincess · 05/10/2024 20:24

I absolutely agree with you on this. In my experience, everyone knows who the good teachers are, and I think they deserve to be paid more to recognise that. The kids and the parents know (sorry if that’s a surprise to any teachers reading…), so it must be recognised among the staff - and no it’s not just to do with results, although over time, and recognising the ability of the classes they teach, I imagine there’s a strong correlation.

You would be wrong.

Sherrystrull · 05/10/2024 20:32

What is the best educational experience for children is far from what is happening in schools. It's nothing to do with ethos.
Teachers are on the edge. I don't mark homework in detail as I spend my many hours extra doing things that actually impact attainment. I plan great lessons. I assess class work when I know what support children have had.

noblegiraffe · 05/10/2024 20:33

I can see that what is good for the work life balance of a teacher will not always chime with what is ideal for students but golly - these decisions should not be driven by the factors being discussed in this thread. What is the best educational experience for kids and then we work back from there

What is good for the kids is having a qualified teacher and that is currently not happening quite a lot so we need to work on making that happen.

If it means not meeting some things that parents have come to expect then parents may have to just put up with that.

A qualified teacher who doesn’t mark homework is preferable to no teacher.

OP posts:
cardibach · 05/10/2024 20:34

stomachamelon · 05/10/2024 20:30

@Papyrophile we would snap you up!

Would you? Citizenship isn’t a feature of the curriculum anymore, and PHSE tends to be delivered by form tutors. With the financial constraints, I don’t think you actually would. And even more so with the fact that t(e poster doesn’t want full time or ‘ridiculous commitments’.

Sherrystrull · 05/10/2024 20:37

@privatenonamegiven

I'm sorry I snapped. It just feels like nothing is ever good enough in teaching, 60 hour weeks and I can't fit everything in.

stomachamelon · 05/10/2024 20:39

@cardibach yes we would as we teach an alternative curriculum that features life skills,personal development and citizenship.
And we have lots of staff that work part time.

The only 'commitment' is that you turn up when you say you going to.

Menopausalprincess · 05/10/2024 20:40

FrippEnos · 05/10/2024 20:31

You would be wrong.

Hahaha, if that’s illustrative of your teaching style, maybe not! Perhaps try constructing a persuasive argument?

cardibach · 05/10/2024 20:40

stomachamelon · 05/10/2024 20:39

@cardibach yes we would as we teach an alternative curriculum that features life skills,personal development and citizenship.
And we have lots of staff that work part time.

The only 'commitment' is that you turn up when you say you going to.

That doesn’t sound like state education as I know it.

FrippEnos · 05/10/2024 20:40

Menopausalprincess · 05/10/2024 20:40

Hahaha, if that’s illustrative of your teaching style, maybe not! Perhaps try constructing a persuasive argument?

And you prove my point, well done.

cardibach · 05/10/2024 20:40

Menopausalprincess · 05/10/2024 20:40

Hahaha, if that’s illustrative of your teaching style, maybe not! Perhaps try constructing a persuasive argument?

Maybe try accepting that people who work in a sector understand it better than you?

stomachamelon · 05/10/2024 20:41

I have already said I work in a state PRU.

Papyrophile · 05/10/2024 20:42

@cardibach , I did specify in my post that I would cheerfully do some hours (10-15 perhaps) per week for FREE. I am 67. But it isn't enough. In my last school which was 10 form entry, that wouldn't deliver across a year group, but it would be demanding for me.

Combinatorix · 05/10/2024 20:43

SEN needs a radical rethink and a great deal more funding. Families with SEN children need to be able to access proper support that is about more than just school
Mental health services (NHS ones) and social services need funding and their accountability systems need adjusting so they do their jobs and don’t pass the buck to schools
Parents need to be access support - financial and for developing skills and support networks
There needs to be more and better AP

The curriculum review needs to recognise that not all students are the same

Accountability should come with support

Menopausalprincess · 05/10/2024 20:45

FrippEnos · 05/10/2024 20:40

And you prove my point, well done.

Parents know who the good (and bad) teachers are because of how teachers respond to parents, because of how they see them treat other people’s children when they’re in school, because kids aren’t stupid and do describe what goes on in the classroom - whether teachers can be bothered to explain when kids ask questions, or just brush it aside, and (and some teachers don’t seem to realise this), parents talk to each other, and also to kids other than their own.

Some teachers are clearly excellent, some are very bad - it’s not a secret!

cardibach · 05/10/2024 20:47

Papyrophile · 05/10/2024 20:42

@cardibach , I did specify in my post that I would cheerfully do some hours (10-15 perhaps) per week for FREE. I am 67. But it isn't enough. In my last school which was 10 form entry, that wouldn't deliver across a year group, but it would be demanding for me.

The education system nearly broke me. No fucking chance I do anything for them, least of all for freee.

newmummycwharf1 · 05/10/2024 20:47

noblegiraffe · 05/10/2024 20:33

I can see that what is good for the work life balance of a teacher will not always chime with what is ideal for students but golly - these decisions should not be driven by the factors being discussed in this thread. What is the best educational experience for kids and then we work back from there

What is good for the kids is having a qualified teacher and that is currently not happening quite a lot so we need to work on making that happen.

If it means not meeting some things that parents have come to expect then parents may have to just put up with that.

A qualified teacher who doesn’t mark homework is preferable to no teacher.

Pretty low bar for the education of the bulk of the population. Qualified teacher versus no teacher. Scary but it is where we are. Which is why those who can pay.

Combinatorix · 05/10/2024 20:47

Oh and no state school should be its own admissions authority

Combattingthemoaners · 05/10/2024 20:49

newmummycwharf1 · 05/10/2024 20:29

I see. From a personal perspective, as a student, homework helped me with consolidation, helped my parents engage with what I was learning, discipline to sit and focus and also loved to please and impress my teacher - so their feedback was valuable.

I can see that what is good for the work life balance of a teacher will not always chime with what is ideal for students but golly - these decisions should not be driven by the factors being discussed in this thread. What is the best educational experience for kids and then we work back from there

And another reason why there should be diversity in educational offerings so parents can choose the sort of school with the sort of teachers and ethos they subscribe to

You are clearly someone who cared about their education which is great. If only all students were like this. In a class of 33 often 5/6 will not have done their homework and we are meant to set this weekly. If you multiply this by 10/12 classes depending on the subject you’re teaching you are looking at 50 detentions per week as a minimum plus the detentions from terrible behaviour. It’s impossible to maintain on a full timetable and lots of parents don’t support it. It is just another tick box at the moment for classes outside of exams.

I don’t disagree with you though. I think we do need more diversity as the current model isn’t working.

Swipe left for the next trending thread