6500 extra teachers....

[noblegiraffe]

This was one of Labour's main headline pledges. They were a bit vague on the details - is this 6500 more than the amount of teachers that are currently needed, or 6500 more than the Tories managed to recruit, which was well below the amount currently needed? I don't know.

Anyway, where are we at?
Teachers were awarded a 5.5% pay rise as recommended - good.
Ofsted single word judgements scrapped immediately - good.
PPA can now be taken from home - meh, maybe good for primary
Performance related pay scrapped -good

The situation:
Teacher trainee recruitment targets were massively missed again for this September so schools will continue to have unfilled vacancies next September.

The projected fall in pupil numbers due to decreasing birth rates won't be as big as expected so more primary teachers will be needed (and this will impact school funding as fewer pupils meant there was going to be potentially spare cash in the system).

Potentially more pupils in the state system from private could be balanced out by returning private teachers to state schools. That will take some time to shake out.

PGCE mentors are now expected to do 20 hours of training this year to be a mentor, and lead mentors 30 hours, regardless of how experienced they are. This is putting people off being mentors so PGCE providers are struggling to find placements for what few trainees they have.

Workload for teachers is increasing due to lack of funding, and lack of teachers, so they have less time to devote to training teachers. The lack of experienced teachers available to train them is also a problem. At the same time, the demands of training new teachers on schools has increased (e.g. the NQT year is now two years of support and reduced timetable and schools also need to provide PGCE students with 4 extra weeks of intensive training and practice).

This is an extremely urgent issue, and a key government pledge, so why all the airtime about anything to do with education is being taken up with bloody VAT is beyond me.

The impact of the lack of teachers in the system is huge. Inability to recruit teachers means kids have supply and cover teachers which affects their learning, but also their behaviour across the school as they become disaffected in those subjects. Experienced teachers are not only having to plan lessons for the supply teachers and sometimes mark for them too, they are having to pick up the pieces and fill in the gaps when they teach the classes the next year. Heads of Department are spending huge amounts of time fielding legitimate complaints about the quality of teaching. Advertising for positions that cannot be filled is expensive.

What do Labour need to do to turn this around?

Agree with all that ... and ...

Parenting classes for new parents
More discipline in schools
Teachers protected from kids that are 'off the rails'
More early years education
Increase term time by 2 weeks (covid catch up)
Pay teachers more than train drivers

@cardibach also it might make more sense to view it as a % of tax takings.

🎣 for bites.

Are you a teacher @LaurenOrda as you seem to think it's such an easy job compared to a nurse. I'm guessing your judgement is based on actually being a teacher.

Maybe not.

They aren’t inaccessible to anyone. Anyone can choose to be a teacher or other public sector worker. It’s not a private club. If they want the public sector pensi9ns, they’ll need to do a public sector job. Just as if you want to travel a lot you perhaps work in the travel industry, if you want high salaries you choose finance etc etc. peiple make choices. Choices have consequences.

Yes I know that. Don’t try to be all superior. The (very short) quote says that’s falling, but you don’t seem to have taken that in. Also the percentage it is of what we have is quite important in working out if it’s affordable.

You don’t think tax takings are related to GDP at all?

@RaraRachael

Im not a teacher. But I am a higher rate tax payer. So I'd like to see better value for my taxes. I'm also from a background connected to running businesses. The 'it's not fixable' 'it's not changeable' 'it's too difficult' attitude does not get nearly so much traction in the private sector.

@cardibach oh come on!

Its far clearer to the average tax payer to illustrate it like that than it is to relate it to GDP. We can of course try to increase GDP to increase tax takings.

So we know it's 2% of GDP. What % is it of tax takings? 🤔

@cardibach "peiple make choices. Choices have consequences"

Exactly. You can't choose to be a teacher then be upset at teaching classes of 30 kids, or having to do marking, or having to deal with unruly kids.

Except that you can be upset at classes of 30 kids when its unsafe and goes against all guidance,
You can be upset at "unruly" children when people are trying to include threats, abuse, sexual abuse and violence.
Marking not so much

Or, as is increasingly the case, choose not to. That’s kind of the point of the thread. The job has changed beyond recognition from when I decided to do it, so that’s not quite true anyway.
But people ARE choosing not to do it. Changing the pension would make more choose not to, because it is a factor. We’re trying to come up with ways to get more teachers.
What’s your answer?

So fewer people are choosing to become teachers. If your point is that teachers are unreasonable for not wanting to do those things I'm not sure what your answer to the recruitment crisis is. You can't make people become teachers and experienced teachers who did not have to contend with bad behaviour from children, parents and management when they started 30 or 40 years ago don't want to do it any more because it wasnt what they signed up for.

I don't think anybody can be called unreasonable for not being happy being sworn at or having things thrown at them on a daily basis. It's not a case of "Well that's what you signed up for as a teacher as well as long holidays and a big fat pension"
This is the stuff that has to change. In many workplaces there are zero tolerance policies for staff abuse - not in schools.
I

I am an ex-teacher. In my last class, I taught year 3. I had 31 pupils, 11 of whom already had an SEND plan in place and 2 more who were in the process of applying. Of the pupils with SEN, 8 of them had some variation of "remind them the instructions one-to-one at their desk" in their plan. For some of them it was something like "verbally remind them and set a timer to do each step", for others, they needed a picture guide of each instruction (e.g. "open your book on the next new page." "Write the date." etc) with a pieces of a laminated smile to stick over the top as they did each one. Several of them specifically said I had to make eye contact with that child as I explained instructions. 2 needed the opportunity to say the instructions back to me. And this is just giving the instructions of the task, not even actually teaching a concept. There was no money for a TA, and no one applied for TA roles anyway, so I was alone in the classroom. I failed those children every single day. I also failed the rest of the class because I barely had a moment to look at them, let alone focus on their needs or plan something which would be fun and engaging for them.
There were also 2 children who had very recently arrived in the UK and couldn't speak or understand English. They were extremely traumatised by the war in Ukraine. I speak a tiny bit of Russian, and that made me the most qualified to help them. Ukrainian is not the same language as Russian btw.
To try to keep up with the needs in that class, I worked at least 70 hours per week during term and 20-25 hours per week in the holidays. And because I had previously worked abroad, I had to negotiate for my pay (no automatic transfer onto the payscale) so with 10 years experience, all the school had budget for was £35,000 in London. I had to live in an HMO with strangers.
Now I work in a different sector. I work online about 30 hours a week, made £44,000 in my first year, I have significantly less stress both in terms of emotionallly complex situations and demands on my time. My evenings and weekends are my own and I enjoy my life again. I would never ever go back and I try to help all of my teacher friends to get out.

Well said @Purspectiveplease .
As I, and other PPs have said, you can't judge a teacher's "easy job" unless you have actually been one.

if they offered a £150000 salary and final salary pension plus school holidays off it still would not induce me to be a teacher. I'm very academically capable of being a teacher and if I had to I would teach modern languages which is, I believe, a problem area for recruitment.
there is no way on gods green earth I'd become a teacher.

I always advise people, when they moan about how well paid police officers are and how they don't do anything, that recruitment is open to all and if it's so great, why not apply. I think the same advice applies to @LaurenOrda

Yep. Maybe if @LaurenOrda retrained and joined the ranks, that would only be another 6499 that would have to be recruited 🤣

I'm busy earning enough for my kids to go to private school at the moment. But I fully intend to jump on the 13 week holiday defined benefit pension scheme once they're off our hands.

I've worked 100 hour weeks, managed multi national multi billion pound deals, done many many all nighters, cancelled holidays and been beholden to several corporate psychopaths in my time. Teaching a subject or two to kids - I'll manage that.

Excellent. Mind you, you won’t have many years to build up your pension so you might be disappointed. You can probably get more by keeping your high paying job and investing the difference in pay.
You may also find management I; schools tending to the sort of behaviour you are used to from ‘corporate psychopaths’, but hey, you’re used to it…

Completely agree you should be able to expel the troublemakers.

I had a shit time in state school so I'm paying to ensure my kids don't go to school with people like that.

The expired kids need separate (not on site) support units with behavioral therapy and reasonable achievement targets rather than comprehensive do all classes sit all exams.

It could be paid for out of funds from restructured civil service pensions!

LOL at being 'afraid' of teaching 'management'. 😂 Erm, I think I'd handle myself just fine.

The pension would be an element of guaranteed income versus unguaranteed returns from other investments. And it would keep me busy for 39/52 weeks. I've a certain sporting interest that I'd volunteer to coach the rest of the time.

Where did I use the word ‘afraid’?
I think your expectations of both the job and the pension are unrealistic.

Go for it LaurenOrda, I’m sure you’ll tell SLT a thing or two and be an inspiration to your colleagues. Having worked 100 hour weeks you’ll breeze through a teaching week. Look forward to your updates when you’re trained and a classroom teacher.

If you’re lucky you’ll get me training you.