Menendez Brothers

[Hotdogsarevile]

I’m not watching the Netflix series but I have found a 2 part series on true crime

i only just remember this case, I would have been about 10 when it was in the news. Watching the documentary some of the evidence for the prosecution was just mind boggling

for example so many members of their family, teachers and therapists testified that the father was abusing the boys, in the closing arguments the prosecution said “I know a man who was abused by his dad, beaten by him on a regular basis, but you know what he did, at 18 years old he joined the armed forces and actually made something of his life rather than being a victim” 😳😳😳

one of the boys, I think it was Erik, he’d been abused for 12 years. He described in detail how it felt to be raped, the pain that he felt, the injuries etc. The prosecution said that there were rumours that Erik was gay so that it didn’t mean that his father was abusing him because if he was in fact gay he would know what that anal sex would feel like - Jesus Christ I know this was the early 90’s but really???

there was a juror talking from the first trial who said that every single male juror didn’t believe that a father could abuse boys that way (of course they were more than willing to accept that a father would abuse daughters 🤬)

the fact that they killed their (millionaire) parents isn’t in question, they admitted to it but if all that abuse is true would they have a different trial now?

or are they in fact just cold blooded killers?

I know precisely nothing about this case except they were vilified and called evil.
you’ve piqued my interest.

I would certainly hope that their trial would nowadays take into account the circumstances and their defence would be used successfully to reduce their sentence.

I'm not that up on the case though I remember it. Having been on a jury I can completely see how the morons came to the conclusions they did. Rape and abuse is still so poorly understood that I'm not surprised at those comments.

There is so much focus on VAWAG that people seem to forget that boys are abused too and it's just as horrific and traumatising. There's very little support for boys and they obviously had no one to turn to.

I've always found this case fascinating. I don't doubt they were abused by their parents. I do think the shooting was particularly violent and premeditated and they could have found an alternative way to escape them than murder. I also don't think it helped that kitty was murdered after Lyle went outside and reloaded before going back in. The lies they told in the lead up to being arrested didn't help them and they did seem to be saying what they thought would play out best for a jury which is a bit suspicious. I'm not sure they were the nicest kids before all this happened based on their previous records. It's a very interesting case but I feel the right verdict was reached. They planned to kill their parents in cold blood.

If you have Disney plus, an interesting documentary is Mastermind-to think like a killer. Its about a doctor who worked with the FBI profilers. In one episode she speaks about the brothers and has alot of empathy for them, and believes they were badly abused. Felt it was unfair how their second trial left out the valid details of their abuse.

I haven't yet watched the Netflix doc. It's on my list. Not sure I'll have the stomach for it.

I've watched the netflix series but would like to watch a documentary. I just found the whole thing bizarre. Erik's calls to his girlfriend? Being recorded. I don't know how factual the series is. I do think both brothers had MH issues but you would wouldn't you, being brought up like that?

I'm watching the Netflix series and my god if the portrayal is true they are vile .

I don't doubt that they were abused. They must have suffered a nightmare existence throughout their childhood.

But, the crime wasn't committed in self defence. It was pre meditated days, weeks and possibly a year before if reports are to be believed.

They stopped and went back to kill their mother when there was no immediate danger to their lives. They shot them multiple times, literally blowing them to pieces. It was a truly horrific act.

They did not report what they had done, instead worked to cover up the crime for weeks and months afterwards. I'm not sure whether it was proved but they were considering killing their therapist due to their confessions to him.

It's textbook premeditated murder from which they financially benefitted to the sum of $12m I believe.

Whilst it's horrendous what they suffered as children and in no way should that be minimised, it doesn't excuse premeditated murder.

They could have left, they did have that option. Lyle went to Princeton College and had lived away from home. His parents were buying him his own property to live in. They could have literally left the home and walked away. I feel like they wanted the money and lifestyle, and on a deep level probably saw it as their right after the horrendous abuse.

I'm glad they didn't get the death penalty but being sentenced to life was a better outcome.

I do agree that they deserved to go to prison for life as the act itself was horrific, they blew their mothers face off

the trial itself wasn’t about guilt, they’d already confessed to that, it was about whether it was self defence, which in that moment it absolutely was not.

I do believe there was severe abuse, which is horrific but they also deserved to go to prison for what they did

I've just read up on it and their self defense plea was obviously baloney. Plus they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the aftermath. Their motivation was obviously money. They deserved to go to prison.

I Personally feel terribly sad for these two men.

They were failed by both their parents their whole lives and then family members who did nothing to help them when they told them what was happening and then failed by the small minded people who judged their trials.

It broke my heart when I read a quote from Erik saying being in jail was the first time he felt safe.

I'd be surprised if they were released anytime soon, despite the current push for it on social media.

I believe they got Life without the possibility of parole. Which means they're already locked into their sentence. Wouldn't they have to appeal the sentence with new evidence to get the possibility of parole?

I don't think its fair to call the jury small minded.

The brothers carried out the premeditated and planned murder of their parents, which they took great pains to cover up so they could inherit millions.

I think it's very blinkered to just focus on the SA as an excuse to commit any horrific acts with impunity.

I don't doubt for a moment they were abused. But I do think they committed first degree murder for which they should be in prison. Two things can be true at the same time.

I think there is new evidence about the abuse. I'm sure one of the cousins and also a member of a boy band the father managed have come forward to say Jose Menedez sexually abused them.

There was also a recent change in the law that says anyone not able to testify about sexual abuse at their trial may be eligible to be retried. The boys were not allowed to testify about that at their second trial because of the hung juries in the first two trials.

I'm not sure how I feel about their sentences. On the one hand, their crime was brutal and their behaviour afterwards was shocking. On the other hand, I do believe they were abused throughout most of their lives. They deserved a lengthy prison sentence. I don't know if they deserved a whole life sentence.

I was 17 at the time and from/living in my hometown in California. So it was in my backyard. Very close to the bone because they were not much older than me.

If you really want an excellent, psychological deep dive, go to Laura Richards’ Crime Analyst podcast. She herself is a legend (crime analyst/former New Scotland Yard) and is so insightful. And one of her guests is one of the female jurors from the first trial. If you have Spotify, type in Crime Analyst Menendez Murders and you’ll see how much work she’s done on analysis of this case alongside experts like Professor Ann Burgess who profiled, interviewed, and assessed Erik and was herself an expert witness. I just looked it up. It’s episode 148 and 149.

If they were raped and abused by their parents then I don't care about premeditation 🤷‍♀️

Moral of the story is don't rape and abuse your kids

'Don't care about premeditation' unfortunately the law isn't about caring or not caring, it's about actions meeting a standard or criteria. Which in this case their actions did.

For what it's worth, I think the abuse that they suffered was a big mitigating factor in them not getting the death penalty. Appreciate it wasn't included in evidence in the final trial but it was certainly taken into account in sentencing.

If they weren't believed they would have almost certainly been put to death.

Lots of murderers were sexually and physically abused as children. Do we feel sorry for them during their trials? Rose West for instance was abused as a child and yet she went on to be one of the most prolific serial killers in history.

The only reason why people are taking this abuse into account is because the people they murdered were the people who abused them. But that still doesn't make it right, and when you look at the premeditated angle it's clear that if it hadn't been their parents it would have been someone else.

I started Watching monsters on Netflix, couldn’t get into it like I did dahmer, so I stopped. I know a bit about the case but I’ve also noticed that there’s 2 sides, people that think they were lying and are indeed monsters and then those that think they were victims, I’m on the fence in terms of the murders, but I defo believe they were SA by thier father for years. It defo do3snt condone them murdeing thier parents however I understand the reasons. I feel like if it happened now, they would have defo been let off. Back in the 90’s, people didn’t wanna believe that things like that happened.

I've read Robert Rands book and the book by one of the jurors. I've listened to numerous podcasts including Real Crime Profile and Crime Analyst. I've also watched much of the recorded trial. I really wouldn't base your understanding of the case on the netflix series.

Just a few things from PP that wanted to flag:

• in the second trial they weren't allowed to submit any details about the abuse or call certain witnesses
• the prosecution couldn't find a single person to come to stand to talk about the parents, however family members were on side of defence and iterated what awful parents they were (sexual abuse happens behind closed doors so they wouldn't know about it)
• photos taken by the dad of the boys genitals were kept by the mum and shown in the first trial
• psychologists said that both boys had delayed development, like the emotional maturity of a 6 or I year old, can't remember the exact number
• Erik was taken by his parents to a doctor a number of times with injuries consistent with oral rape and sexual abuse
• the prosecution never actually put forward "financial gain" as motive in any of the trials as everyone agreed that financially the boys were always given what they wanted by their parents anyway

These men have been failed by the legal system.

There's no doubt in my mind they were horrifically and consistently abused.

If freedom is good enough for Gypsy Rose it's good enough for these brothers. 30 odd years is long enough

But they killed their parents in cold blood, their mother was completely incapacitated and they reloaded the gun and shot her. That's not self defence. They then spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the aftermath.

That's not perfect self defense no

Bur imperfect , I believe them on that

I remember watching a 2 part drama about this case on ITV around 1999ish. it was a good watch, I wonder if it can be found on itv player or YouTube? does anyone else remember watching it?

How is it self defence? Their dad was found sitting on the sofa and their mum was on the floor.

Imperfect self defense in CA is not the same as in England and Wales.

Only watched the Netflix drama so far but I think both options might be true, the boys were abused and they murdered in cold blood.