Menendez Brothers

[Hotdogsarevile]

I’m not watching the Netflix series but I have found a 2 part series on true crime

i only just remember this case, I would have been about 10 when it was in the news. Watching the documentary some of the evidence for the prosecution was just mind boggling

for example so many members of their family, teachers and therapists testified that the father was abusing the boys, in the closing arguments the prosecution said “I know a man who was abused by his dad, beaten by him on a regular basis, but you know what he did, at 18 years old he joined the armed forces and actually made something of his life rather than being a victim” 😳😳😳

one of the boys, I think it was Erik, he’d been abused for 12 years. He described in detail how it felt to be raped, the pain that he felt, the injuries etc. The prosecution said that there were rumours that Erik was gay so that it didn’t mean that his father was abusing him because if he was in fact gay he would know what that anal sex would feel like - Jesus Christ I know this was the early 90’s but really???

there was a juror talking from the first trial who said that every single male juror didn’t believe that a father could abuse boys that way (of course they were more than willing to accept that a father would abuse daughters 🤬)

the fact that they killed their (millionaire) parents isn’t in question, they admitted to it but if all that abuse is true would they have a different trial now?

or are they in fact just cold blooded killers?

From what I know it's based on the idea that the defendant has an honest but unreasonable belief that they are in danger of death or serious injury.

Both their parents were watching TV when they were shot multiple times and their mother was completely incapacitated when they reloaded the gun and shot her dead.

Their dad was still sitting on the sofa when he was found so how was he a serious threat?

I think they are telling the truth about the abuse, but unfortunately we aren't allowed to just go around shooting pedophiles in the face.
That being said I highly doubt they are of any risk to society and have served a long enough sentence.
A better defence could have argued a plea deal, like they did with Gypsy Rose Blanched.

Just a question, why do you believe them on the abuse? Genuine question.

In the show I originally felt sorry for them but as it progressed, I felt less and less sympathy and in the end thought they were deserving of their sentence.

The SA was never in the original defence, and on reflection why would I believe anyone who shot someone so painfully and gruesomely
.
Their actions in the aftermath showed money was a big driver, there was absolutely no remorse.

My view is all from the TV show, which I thought was brilliant.

For me it was watching the documentary on crime. All the relatives and teachers giving evidence (in the first trial) that the father in particular was abusive. They had no reason to put themselves out like that.

Also re the spending after; apparently they spent money like that anyway, when the parents were alive.

Also, when I watched the real trials and interviews with them and others who knew them at the time, it wasn't like that and on the Netflix show they really went a bit OTT with the spending part.

I believe they were SA, and just emotionally and physically abused. I feel that their lifestyles were that of the very, very wealthy and were in fact spoilt. I don't think it justifies killing their parents the way they did, and the lies/acting that followed. But do I think they should be released? Yes, I think they have served enough time. Will they be released? No, I 100% guarantee they will never be released.

I also think they will struggle mentally coming out of the prison system now. Not that that is a reason to stay behind bars but I think being from a certain lifestyle, then spending all that time in prison, they will struggle.

@Hotdogsarevile do you know where I can find the documentary? I think there's a netflix one coming out next week, not sure if that's the same.

its on crime investigation+

I think its just called the trial of the Menendez brothers

I have not watched the series or any documentary about this particular case, but must admit that I sympathise with victims of abuse who turn on their abusers. Even in cold blood. Some might call it revenge, but I really believe that for many, it is genuinely felt to be their only chance at emancipation. For many women in abusive relationships, the truth is that their lives will continue to be devastatingly dominated by their abusers even if they are 'successful' at leaving the relationship. This remains the case for two friends of mine who continue to live in fear of their former spouses, one in hiding, over a decade after separation. One of their solicitors joked that my friend would have had a better chance at returning to normal life had she 'bumped off' her abusive husband, as she'd serve her time and be able to live free of fear.

Saying the brothers seemed like unpleasant kids anyway or that being routinely sexually abused by a paedofile parent for many years doesn't excuse murder ‐the first seems to imply that, had the boys remained unscathed by their experiences and maintained some sort of 'niceness' reserved for children growing up in healthy family systems, the judiciary would have looked more kindly on them. The second smacks of empathy failure; I think child sexual abuse is a life-sentence for a child, not a blip or parenthesis in early life from which to resume some kind of 'normality'. The abuser has taken that possibility away. I obviously understand that the law cannot condone victims of abuse ending the lives of their abusers, but I have much empathy with those who do. I would make a terrible juror.

They were serial liars and had looked up details of how sexual abuse of children happened from other cases, whether they made that up to justify the killings I don't know. It does sound like the dad was very hard on them and in today's terms physically abusive. Is that sufficient to kill him, and their mother? Why not just leave home as soon as possible? The parents had just bought one of them a condo apparently.

It's really difficult to judge from these type of part documentary type programmes how much is absolutely true and how much conjecture, and poetic license. Did one of them really admit to that girl (on tape) that a lot of it was made up and they got people to lie for them? If so it's a slam dunk.

There are lots of documentaries and the whole original trial footage on you tube. Just search for Menendez brothers.

I second the recommendation of the Crime Analyst series on the Menendez
Brothers, the podcast series is here.

Thanks for this thread. I watched the netflix drama and then the latest documentary out yesterday, also on Netflix. After watching all of that and some of the trial on YouTube I absolutely believe them. I just don't think they are acting when the talk about the abuse, you can see the shame in them and how broken they are. The documentary also does a good job of explaining how they really didn't have a fair second trial and with the new evidence, I just don't think they should be disbelieved any longer.

I just read that their case will be reviewed in November and they could be released in time for Christmas. I really hope they are released and can make up for some of the lost time. I find the whole story heartbreaking. Even the actor who plays Eric in the Netflex drama says he belives them. We know so much more about abuse now and I think that's informing alot of people's opinions.

Very interesting case. Makes me think about Gypsy Rose and Sally Challen. I think they absolutely should have served long sentences but I'm not sure about the 'no chance of parole' bit.

Just started watching the netflix documentary. Its an interesting case.

I’ve watched the documentary on Netflix and I definitely believe the SA allegations.

right at the end of the programme when the TikTok movement had begun, I can’t remember whether it was Lyle or Erik, said it was amazing that so many young people were interested in their case, but he said it was so important for them to not minimise or trivialise the crime they had committed. I thought that was such an insightful comment.

I honestly think they have used their time in prison to heal and to also quite rightly to be punished for what they have done. But I absolutely don’t agree that it should be life without parole.

I agree @Hotdogsarevile

They shouldn’t have done it, but when you watch the documentary and you see the attitude to males being sexually abused I don’t think anything would have been done if they had reported the abuse at the time. I think there was a lot of abuse, not just sexual and that their mother didn’t do anything to help. I’m not sure if anything would have happened to them if they had just left but I can understand their fear. Maybe they will get an appeal on their sentence and be released.

I find this interesting. I struggle to understand how if they were nice or not is remotely relevant. Is it just the horrifically abused boys you think should go down for murder. Or do you apply the same logic to a woman who is abused for decades by her father or husband? You think she should also be jailed, that no amount of abuse justifies it?

or is it they are Rich ?

I see what some posters are saying about the boys' finding another way to escape their parents other than murder. However, I think it's important to remember how powerful their father was and how long they'd been groomed to believe that they couldn't escape; that he would find them and kill them. Many abuse victims I imagine feel quite powerless and like they can never escape, let alone when their father is a multi-millionaire with endless resources to track them down and bring them home.

I think the combination of Eric being told he couldn't move out to go to uni, but had to continue living at home, their mother's admittance that she'd known all along what was going on and Lyle's shame around molesting his brother and failing to protect him for all those years (Eric confessed to him a few days before the murder that he was still being abused) made them snap and feel they had no other way out. That's my interpretation in any case.

@Theonewhogotaway no nothing to do with them being rich at all but they'd committed armed burglary on a number of occasions prior to the murders - they didn't help themselves in the presentation of their defence and my own personal view is that this turned certain jurors against them. It was murder under the law as it was premeditated and the abuse of wasn't considered sufficient to excuse the crime. As I say I don't doubt they were abused but it's difficult to call it manslaughter especially when it was clearly pre planned. It's a very sad case for all involved.

Several people on this post don’t seem to understand the definition of imperfect self defence. It’s explained clearly in the Netflix documentary. In my view they had an honest belief their lives were at risk, just not in that moment, hence the delay in shooting the mother.

Some PP also don’t seem to understand the reasons abused people have for not leaving their abuser when they ‘have the chance’. If abused people could just up and leave at the age of 18 and it was just that simple then we wouldn’t have any abused adults. Erik was explicitly told he would never get away. Lyle had been able to go to college because Erik was now the target. If you don’t believe the SA then fair enough (personally I do believe it) but if you believe the SA happened then why be so naive as to the reasons why they didn’t ‘just leave’.

The male jurors in the first trial just couldn’t accept that boys could be sexually abused by their dad. That says a lot. The second trial wouldn’t allow a defence, it was just did they kill their parents or didn’t they. I think it would’ve been a different outcome if tried today.

The Netflix documentary says that the case is being reviewed. I sincerely hope that both men are considered for release, they’ve done 18 years of SA then 30 years of prison, they’ve been punished for their crime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglmv4lgx0o

The two of them had told family members snippets of what was going on when they were younger, some cousins picked up on their terror.
This is possibly why all family members want them freed.
Their father it seems was a paedophile.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/menendez-menudo-boys-betrayed-roy-rossello-jose-menendez-child-rape-menendez-brothers-murder-1234726905/

They have paid for what they have done and will forever live with the abuse they endured. If they are remorseful for the killings they should be freed.