Who can explain this to me regarding childhood witnessing dm

[scientificexplanations]

I didn't have a bad childhood, I mean not compared to some ! But we did witness alot of domestic violence, a lot of shouting, arguments and violence. Mainly caused by my dad getting drunk and not being able to handle it, then taking it out on my mum.

I am a very anxious person, I really struggle to cope with any stressful situations, I have ocd, and I mean proper ocd that takes over your life, intestine thoughts and I can't ever see myself not on antidepressants.
I've tried cbt lots, it just never works for me. I have recently had emdr mentioned to me by a health professional and thinking of giving it ago.

What I went to know if, could my childhood cause me to be the way I am now ?
I mean, what is it exactly that affects a child when witnessing this kind of behaviour as a young child ? Can anyone explain the science of it to me please ? I really want to understand if the way I am today has been shaped by my childhood

Intrusive thoughts I meant there

Yes it's likely caused your nervous system to be overly attuned to stress/danger.

You'd probably get a lot out of the book The Body Keeps the Score.

EMDR could help indeed as it sort of encourages the process of rewiring that bit of the brain.

I would have thought that a big part of why you have OCD, anxiety and depression is because you experienced child abuse. Witnessing domestic violence is child abuse. I also think you know this OP, deep down. Wouldn’t you say?

CBT wont help at all if it's caused by trauma which it sounds like it was. It's basically you living in constant fight or flight mode and OCD is a way of regaining some kind of perceived control.

Urge you to try EMDR - its very very helpful for reducing emotional trauma and as a PP said, re-wiring the brain.

CBT won't work for trauma induced anxiety because you're not in the cognitive part of your brain when it's happening, you're more in the limbic system where emotions and memories are processed.

Yes I know it's classed as child abuse, not nice to think of it like that but it is true.
I have an early memory of jumping in front of my mum to stop my dad punching her. I also remember him smash up our porcelain dolls which were Christmas presents off my auntie one year

I can try to do a quick run down of the science - basically our autonomic nervous system is the part of our brain that constantly scans the environment for signs of danger or safety. This is unconscious and instinctive. It's a very old part of our brain which we share with animals even. E.g. like the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, like an animal will make its fur big to look bigger.

Witnessing violence or aggression definitely activates the danger detection systems, whether the aggression is aimed at you or not. Even very young children will pick up on this. When you've grown up doing this a lot, it becomes a sort of template where your brain will expect there to be danger everywhere and put you into a more protective mode. Anxiety and OCD are the ways that this can manifest because you're trying to have more control over your environment to keep yourself safe because the younger you didn't have the chance to make sense of the experiences that you had.

You can improve it somewhat by working through the traumatic memories with a trauma counsellor or therapist and EMDR can help too. Another way to help manage it is to become more aware of what state of "danger awareness" you're in (called arousal) and use self-regulation strategies to bring your arousal down and remind yourself that you are safe now and there is no danger now.

I'm so sorry that you went through that. It must have been horrible for little you to experience.

It sounds like you'd benefit far more from talking therapy than EDMR, which is very controversial and based on very unscientific ideas.

This is amazing stuff. Thank you for explaining it in detail to me. It makes sense and would definitely be the reason I am so anxious now as an adult.

@BertieBotts to be honest it's only a faint memory, but it is definitely buried in there someone here isn't it. There's is alot more but I know some people and kids now go through so much worse. I just wanted an explanation more than anything about why I'm so fucked in the head as an adult !!

You aren’t fucked in the head. You have some survival strategies that you no longer need.

Little you lived in fear of her life- angry adults destroying her world AND being the ones to rely on for survival. She learned to be very, very careful at all times- to be alert to danger and to avoid triggering disaster. And all this happened in the place she was supposed to be safest. So the safest you know how to be is that little girl twittering on the edge of disaster at all times. That is what ‘safety’ looks like.

Which is clearly unhelpful.

You need help to let go of those strategies because they aren’t useful any more. Noticing and recognising that is a great first step. Do loads of comforting self care to help little you feel safe and looked after. Stuff like yoga, meditation, scented candles- whatever works for you to increase a feeling of nurture and security.

Trauma focused CBT is literally a NICE recommended treatment for PTSD with loads of evidence base but these days everyone appears to think EMDR is the be all and end all

Either way some modality of therapy that addresses early trauma done by a reputable bacp registered therapist is a good idea.

OP, I had a very similar childhood.

I didn't talk about if to anybody and only now opening up to a therapist.

I avoid conflict and allowed people to treat me very badly for that reason.
Even hearing shouting and swear words makes me really anxious.

I'm still disassociated from it because I talk about it with very little emotion. That's quite common.

I've read lots around the subject too. I used to wonder what was wrong with me. I'm trying now to reframe it as what I've been through.

Have you had any therapy?

@scientificexplanations

depending on how much detail you want this is a link to talks from Robert Sapolsky who is a professor of biology at Stanford, he has done a lot of work on stress and it’s impact on the body and mental health. It’s pretty accessible
https://mindhearteu.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/sapolsky-stress-and-your-body1.pdf

The trauma informed part is key though, isn't it? And it's not easy to get an NHS diagnosis of PTSD at least not based on childhood memories which are vague. The standard (not trauma focused) CBT offered on the NHS is unlikely to be helpful for unhealthy thoughts stemming from a trauma response. Some trauma survivors actually describe how CBT does more harm than good for them.

I don't know that much about EMDR admittedly - I just had read in lots of places that it's helpful for reducing the nervous system response to trauma triggers - I understand it does need to be done with a therapist, and it's something to do with eye movements which supposedly help the brain reorganise traumatic memories, but I don't really know much about it other than that.

I have tried cbt so many times, it just doesn't work. I know if I could think differently then I wouldn't be anxious on the first place !
I think I'm autistic too, my son is diagnosed, my older sister and niece all diagnosed, so I know there is a strong possibility there. Maybe that's why cbt didn't work on me ?

I'm also very needy, I don't like that word but not sure how else to explain it.
I have a fear of being left, not alone like literally but I mean by my husband or well anyone I've been with in the past for that matter. I feel as if I'm not good enough for anyone, like someone better will come along and I'll be ditched.
I have very low self esteem, feel like the odd one out all the time, feel like the ugly duckling.
I also have had substance addiction in the past, I seem to get addicted to everything. I always need something to relax me.

@scientificexplanations you would certainly need a therapist with experience of autism. I think it would be hugely impacting how you experience therapy.

Have you heard of rejection sensitivity? That’s an ND thing, and may be bothering you in addition to your history.

I’d seek diagnosis and see whether better treatment for trauma follows from that.

The other thing to remember is that while you might not have a clear memory of what happened, your whole system reacts to trauma instinctively. There will have been things that happened from babyhood, or before, that will have triggered a stress response but because you wouldn't have had a way to process or articulate what was happening, you're just left with the body responses - an instinctive feeling of not being safe. It's why talking therapies such as CBT aren't so helpful with developmental trauma - it's hard to talk about things that happened before you had any language to describe or lay down memories.

Your early experiences of relationships is that they aren't safe, people can be violent and frightening, that early model stays with us into adulthood and gets triggered in close relationships causing anxiety and fear, which then triggers coping strategies like OCD.

CBT can be useful to gain skills to manage the day to day impact but it's not going to get underneath, to the source so you'll keep revisiting those feelings. EMDR can be good but isn't great for complex trauma (which domestic abuse is), somatic therapies combined with relational talking therapy can be very effective because it provides a safe, boundaried relationship which can help you learn to feel safe in relationships.

I haven't got any useful facts to add to the thread (BertieBotts has covered that really well), but I just wanted to express solidarity with you OP. I have exactly the same sort of horrible memory set of witnessing/hearing arguments and violence between my parents, and I have the same sort of problems in adult life that you describe. Anxiety, hypervigilance to any sort of 'social' threat (conflict, disagreement, judgement). And depression, isolation, etc.

I always feel like I want to excavate the past, remember all of the violent scenes more clearly and vividly so that I can analyse them in some way and 'put them to bed'. But I think that is a kind of fake solution, and that the kinds of solution mentioned above can have more impact.

I am currently having psychotherapy and although we do of course look at the past, the therapeutic element comes more from noticing how it affects me in the present, and also noticing the moments when I 'get past' the various difficulties to achieve a more fluid way of being.

What’s it like between you and each of your parents now?
Do you see them much.

Very interesting, @Jellycatspyjamas that EMDR isn't so good for complex trauma. I suppose that makes sense: recounting and processing a single, highly traumatic incident (like a car crash or being present at a violent robbery) must be extraordinarily different from recounting and processing a thousand fractured half-memories of a thousand events, many of which occurred when the brain was immature).

It is a bit depressing to see that, as I have a sort-of fantasy idea that EMDR might be transformative (never having tried it). I guess I always really knew that was unlikely though.

I always feel like I want to excavate the past, remember all of the violent scenes more clearly and vividly so that I can analyse them in some way and 'put them to bed'. But I think that is a kind of fake solution, and that the kinds of solution mentioned above can have more impact.

I totally understand your thinking, the difficulty being you're not likely to remember every single incident because there was so many, and many that are half memories. Something that can work is really unpicking one or two - maybe ones that stand out for whatever reason - and using them as a reference for all the others. It's likely there are similar themes, experiences and feelings across all of the memories and sometimes resolving the most prominent can help lay the others to rest.

@ReadWithScepticism exactly, when memories are so complex, half remembered and there's no language for them it can be hard to get enough focus for EMDR and the client can become overwhelmed with nothing to attach the overwhelm to, if that makes sense. It's possible though to use the process I've described (ie processing selected clear memories to symbolise them all), but I'd want a very, very experienced practitioner to try that.