Eating LESS vegetables

[Vegwoes]

Not getting a lot of joy from the GP with this, as she seems to think I can manage it, but it is difficult to get my head around.
I have IBS and have always loved veg. I eat it more or less every day, with everything, and lots of it.

In recent years my IBS has grown worse, and after discovering there is nothing wrong with me medically, I am sad to have to face the fact that the amount of veg I eat is possibly an issue. My most recent self test involved eating only cheese on toast for 3 days, in which all of my symptoms clear up.

I have always eaten spinach with meals, along with broccoli, and all the good greens. I love tomato, onion and garlic, but know they make it worse, almost immediately after eating.

What I would love from MN is maybe how to get my mind around this, as I have always associated eating veg with health. We have all the constant messaging about veg and how we need to eat tons of it!
How can I eat less of it and still obtain those nutrients?
My Dr says I will be just fine, that a reduction won't harm me at all, so I guess it's a first world problem. But I can't separate my mind from believing less veg means less healthy.

Anyone been through something like this?
And how much do we really 'need' per day?
I know people who only eat fresh veg on a few days per week and have always been healthy into old age. I am possibly overthinking

Surely you can see from how it impacts you that eating veg isn’t allowing you to have a healthy lifestyle, so I think that’s what you need to focus on.

That is the problem, aye!

I need to reduce, but it feels odd since I have enjoyed veg for so many years it will be a big change for me. Spinach got thrown into everything, it was such a thing with me, loved it so much, it is like losing a friend, lol.

I eat very little veg. I mean a tiny amount every now and then. It's not because they make me ill or anything, I just don't like the taste and texture much. I do eat fruit and get fibre from porridge, linseeds and chia seeds, together with homemade brown bread.

So far all my bloods are good, not deficient in anything, and I feel well. Rarely get a cold, never had Covid etc. I don't listen to the ten a day preachers and I'm doing ok.

OK I know that we are advised to eat lots of veg, but it's not obligatory. I wouldn't worry about it, I'd be much more concerned that eating something would make you feel ill TBH.

The book Eat to Beat disease is amazing in narrowing down what foods are the most potent for health. You may be able to pick veg from these lists and include these mega veg so don't need to eat as much volume.

I eat carrots swede and carrot. The only fruit I can eat is banana. I feel the same way. I actually get so jealous of people who can eat normally ( I have other organs that stop me from eating fruit and veg). I do what I can and that’s all I can do.

i do try and get it in as much as i can. As an example I have a vegetable omelette for breakfast everyday.

I will look in to that, thank you.

I dare say only eating it a few days a week ought to be able to furnish me with the nutrients I need.

Agree that there's an obsessive messaging surrounding it, I suppose it never bothered me because I naturally loved it. But I do think 10 a day is hard going for people who aren't fond of it.

I also wonder, before mass production and globalisation, we might have been hard pushed to eat so much!

I highly recommend researching a the Fodmap 'diet'.

I was reffered to an NHS dietician to follow it. I paid for a private appointment as I was in so much pain.

You have to do full elimination to work out the triggers. Mine were onions, garlic, peppers. My colleague was apple skins and the seeds in strawberry.

https://www.gloshospitals.nhs.uk/media/documents/FODMAPdietsheettforwebsite.pdf

I eat a particularly large amount of veg and fruit. Partly because I love it and partly because I suffer chronic constipation caused by a drug I have to take.
I recently had to have a colonoscopy and for 5 days had to eat no veg or fruit at all. I hated it.

I wonder if there are some plants that are less bad for your IBS? Or could you eat them in very small quantities?

I tried fodmap years ago and only grew more confused. I will be having another look.

One thing is certain, my guts were great yesterday and today, no issues whatsoever. And then for dinner I had spinach, onion, tomato and asparagus with my meal this evening and BAM. Was full of painful gas and bloating within 5 minutes. It happens quite fast. One of those is the issue at least!

I will keep a diary.

I wonder though, is there an agreed upon amount per week? 10 per day is out of bounds now, and I don't want to live with this discomfort.

Yes I will have to find which work well and prioritise them somehow.

I didn't know that about colonoscopies. I presume it is the clear the bowel, as the fibre from those foods might obscure the view? Apologies, I am clueless.

I am somewhat concerned about not getting enough fibre when cutting down, and don't much like wholewheat stuff.

As @witmum says, your symptoms may well be down to FODMAPs.
there are a number of different fodmaps in different foods. You might be sensitive to some but not all (particularly if cheese and bread were fine for you).
you really need to follow the elimination religiously and reintroduce according to the schedule. You will find the things you can eat and even high fodmap foods have ‘safe’ serving levels. You can have a very varied and nutritious diet with plenty of fresh produce without being high fodmap

in the meantime, try using a garlic olive oil for flavour. FODMAPS are water soluble so they are fine in oil.

I'd say fodmaps too. Broccoli stalk is not your friend but the florets might be OK. And how much you eat can be an issue so you might tolerate smaller amounts ok.

Going to look into this some more, thanks for the tips. There is so much conflicting info out there!

What happens if you make smoothies??

If it's the fibre that does for you, would you be able to have pureed soups and smoothies?

Great minds... 🙂

Onions and garlic (plus leeks and any other alliums) are the worst, really high fodmap and the cause of 99% of my problems. Definitely cut those out OP. If you know tomatoes are an issue then drop them too, or just have a few baby tomatoes - very small servings infrequently often helps. Spinach is low fodmap so you might find that isn't a problem - it is high in oxylates though so read up on that if you're not already aware. Broccoli is low fodmap just don't go crazy on it.
Almost all salad leaves are low fodmap so you can get a lot of variety there,

Tomatoes are nightshades so you might have issues with others such as peppers and aubergines.

The Monash site is the best for correct info as they do all the research (a uni in Australia i think). There's lots you can eat and you might find you can eat somethings that are high fodmap - it just depends what your issues are with.

If you know you're going to have a 'bad' meal then I'd recommend getting some Multi digestive enzymes from Holland and Barrett, they're a life saver for me.

Have you tried taking kefir daily?

I had worsening IBS for years, sorted by low FODMAP diet. But it was taking kefir regularly (I made it at home) that cured me.

I can pretty much eat whatever I want to now as long as I take kefir occasionally.

A friend of mine has crohns and this is exactly what she finds . She can only cope with very limited amounts and types of fruit and veg . I think cooked carrots is something she is OK with . Certainly not onions, peppers, salad or legumes.

I would suggest taking a good multi vitamin and mineral supplement .

You might find the app FODMAP useful. It's based on research from Monash University and was it's what I was told to use by the NHS dietitian I was referred to for IBS.

It's been a few years since I used it but as I remember it takes you through going low FODMAP for 2 to 6 weeks then the cycling through the reintroduction stage for each FODMAP.

There's a traffic light system for a large list of foods so you have the weight of each that constitutes low, medium and high FODMAP. It does feel like a lot of work at the time, but I felt it was better than avoiding common triggers completely. There are trigger foods I'm fine with if I stick to the low FODMAP portion size.

Which ones do you take?

Also re fibre - I know we are all told to eat lots of fibre, but for some people with IBS and similar difficulties, they need to eat quite low fibre, white bread and pasta plus easily digestible protein - fish, chicken.

Eating fewer vegetables, not less.

I don't think spinach is so great actually. I think it's high in anti-nutrients like oxalic acid which can be very irritating and hard to digest. Broccoli also.

Lots of good info re FODMAPS above.

Try to reframe your thoughts as nutrients you're absorbing rather than what you're eating.

So for example if you're eating lots of vegetables but only absorbing very few nutrients (say 5%) due to gastric distress, then it's doing less for your health than if you ate only 10% of those vegetables but absorbed 80% of the nutrients available.