Eating LESS vegetables

[Vegwoes]

Not getting a lot of joy from the GP with this, as she seems to think I can manage it, but it is difficult to get my head around.
I have IBS and have always loved veg. I eat it more or less every day, with everything, and lots of it.

In recent years my IBS has grown worse, and after discovering there is nothing wrong with me medically, I am sad to have to face the fact that the amount of veg I eat is possibly an issue. My most recent self test involved eating only cheese on toast for 3 days, in which all of my symptoms clear up.

I have always eaten spinach with meals, along with broccoli, and all the good greens. I love tomato, onion and garlic, but know they make it worse, almost immediately after eating.

What I would love from MN is maybe how to get my mind around this, as I have always associated eating veg with health. We have all the constant messaging about veg and how we need to eat tons of it!
How can I eat less of it and still obtain those nutrients?
My Dr says I will be just fine, that a reduction won't harm me at all, so I guess it's a first world problem. But I can't separate my mind from believing less veg means less healthy.

Anyone been through something like this?
And how much do we really 'need' per day?
I know people who only eat fresh veg on a few days per week and have always been healthy into old age. I am possibly overthinking

There was a thread on kefir recently but I can't find it. I've been having digestive issues for a while and tried kefir many times but couldn't stand it. I can normally tolerate anything if it's good for me but thick fizzy sour milk was a step too far.
Anyway I recently found a Polish one that's not noticeabley fizzy and is less sour.
How do you make it?

With this in mind, juicing might be good? Because the nutrients go straight into the bloodstream without your body having to work hard to get them. I add some psyllium husk for fibre.

Thanks everyone.

I have been looking at the fodmap NHS stuff.
I do seem to get on well with many of the higher fodmap foods, so will need to take this slowly.

As for smoothies, I don't make them often, but only ever had issue when adding raspberries. I can do banana, blueberries and strawberry, with a small blob of greek yoghurt.

I definitely have a bad reaction to leek, lentils, beans and chickpeas.
Breads - am ok with most. Pasta ok in small amounts. Rice ok too.

The last time my guts were stable and happy was 2022. Recalling how I ate at that time, it was mostly small flatbread homemade pizza with small bits of veg and mozzarella, chilli peppers, sweet peppers and fresh herbs. Usually topped with tuna, chicken or some sprinkling/shavings of italian cheese.
I stopped eating them due to the ingredients in the flatbreads. Have never been able to home-make a decent one.

Lots of good info re FODMAPS above.

Try to reframe your thoughts as nutrients you're absorbing rather than what you're eating.

So for example if you're eating lots of vegetables but only absorbing very few nutrients (say 5%) due to gastric distress, then it's doing less for your health than if you ate only 10% of those vegetables but absorbed 80% of the nutrients available.

Thank you, this is helpful. I had not thought about it in that way.

I was suffering with IBS for a long time before doing the FODMAP diet. I lost quite a bit of weight but managed to isolate the things that caused me problems, like green peppers, raw onions and chickpeas. Also cabbage, sprouts etc.and baked beans. Oddly I can eat broad beans, red kidney beans and black beans. Recently I bought a loaf with spelt in it and had the worst night of stomach ache I can remember. It's a learning process but I very rarely suffer with it now.

Nutritionally, there's little point in eating foods you can't digest! All the more so if they're actively making you ill - that's the perfect definition of anti-nutrient.

All the veg you've mentioned are 'anti-nutrient' in some way: iodine blocking, calcium blocking, and so on. It's okay for those of us who can digest them, and the idea behind eating a wide variety is that some will offset the adverse effects of others. That's all out of the window if your digestive system can't be arsed, though.

My suggestions, fwiw (I am not a doctor) are to stick to low-irritant foods like white bread, well cooked rice, peeled potatoes, etc. Take a one-a-day multivitamin and mineral; supermarket ones provide all the essential nutrients and micronutrients. Take two if you're really worried! If you get constipated, eat something like tinned apricots.

I agree with trying to fix your gut biome. If kefir and/or bio yoghurt don't help, try something like Bio Kult capsules but I'd say go easy on those. I've got an iron gut but they send me to the bathroom rather urgently 😬

Anecdotally - my friend with absolutely crippling IBS fixed herself by eating packaged coleslaw. No idea why it worked, she was following another friend's advice!

I have ulcerative colitis. When I'm well I just eat all the veg I want. When it's flaring I stick to easy-to-digest veg like butternut squash, courgette, carrots, asparagus.

@Perroi you get some kefir grains - I got some from a neighbour via Next Door but you can buy them online. They are jelly like & shaped a bit like cauliflower florets.

You add milk & strain the kefir off once a day or so. It's very easy to make & the grains grow & multiple.

It doesn't have to be fizzy.

Your username works well in this thread

I have also found that the processed version of my homemade foods are kinder to my gut, which again goes against the usual advice for health. Tricky stuff!
Processed bread depresses me, but on the rare occasions that I eat it, I do feel better.

As for vitamin supplements, my GP and various online sources have told me that they offer negligible help. It's so confusing.

At a Boots pharmacy a few weeks ago, I asked the pharmacist for a supplement recommendation that would help me as I had to reduce my veg intake. He told me this was bad for my health!

Can't you eat cheese on toast with tomatoes one day and then cheese on toast with spinach on the next day etc?

Then you can work out which is causing the problem.

Been doing this all week, except using three veggies instead of just one.
I am currently side-eyeing tomatoes and spinach, which have been 'involved' prior to a negative gut response!

Phew, it's hard work isn't knowing which foods are irritating. I do think you need to ditch the 10 a day thing hang up though

Ah! well i don't count my veg, but am referring to the messaging out there. I realise that it's primary focus is to get people off processed foods and to up their fibre intake (at a population level).

How on earth do I make a vegetable smoothie that would taste good though?
I love veg, but with seasoning, oil, sauces, etc.
A blend of watery green veg sounds dreadful.

Soup?

But why did you do three at once?

Have you tried unpasteurized sauerkraut? It is potent stuff so be v careful. Try a tiny bit (less than a teaspoon a day) and increase slowly.

The only one I like is Raw Organic Sauerkraut. Ocado sell it.

I usually have quite a few veggies so reducing to three was a good drop for me. I will keep on going and try 1 or two soon. I really love them and find it hard to do this!

To a PP, sadly soup is instant bloat, unless it's pre-made. The Cully&Sully (not sure of the name) pots in Tesco are ok. I love to make homemade soups and casseroles and so much more but it isn't helping.

Looking at some juicing and smoothie stuff at the moment, seems people are obsessed with spinach! Since most are pulverising it, i wonder if they actually like the taste...eaten alone, it would not appeal, I admit.

Have you tried activated charcoal tablets? Has really helped me with digestion, gas and bloating.

I don't know how you are with fruit, but I'm not a veg lover! I used to make green juices a lot and really loved them
Main ones were apple, pear, spinach, lime, cucumber. Really good cold with ice

Oh and ginger as well
This is one I copied

Was just about to suggest Fodmap, it's an involved process, but may offer the solution

Well, your system obviously doesn't get on with veg so yes I'd cut it out

It isn't something you ate 5 minutes ago. That food isn't in your gut for hours. When you eat it fires up your digestive system and you can then get symptoms due to food you ate earlier or the previous day. I generally get symptoms from food I ate 24 hours before.

I have IBS-C and have worked out my triggers from following a strict low FODMAP diet. You are right it's really complicated but it's possible to do yourself with lots of research. You shouldn't be in it for too long as the strict restriction will affect your gut bacteria if you do it for too long. So you restrict everything until symptoms completely subside then start reintroducing and monitoring symptoms in groups. Note that you may find that only certain amount of a food affect you so when you introduce you do so in increasing amounts.

My triggers are beans and garlic and sometimes onion. But I can now eat almost anything as long as I have a digestive enzyme beforehand - bean assist. You can get it on Amazon. If you find the diet tricky it might be worth just trying the enzyme first for a few days, then if it doesn't work embark on the diet.

If doing the diet do a lot of research first, there various apps you can get - look for the Monash and kings college apps - and prep your food cupboards so you have food in you can eat.

Good luck!!!!🤞

"How on earth do I make a vegetable smoothie that would taste good though?"

Isn't veg soup just a warm smoothie?

I can't face cold veg smoothies but love a home made veg soup!

I bet onions are the culprit! Especially cooked ones.

I cut out onions years ago and it has helped my IBS enormously - although the GP prescribed mebeverine tablets which help if I'm eating out or otherwise sometimes can't avoid them. Eating homemade sauerkraut helps as well, I don't get as bad a reaction when I do accidentally eat them as I used to.

I substitute celery when making stews, soups, pasta sauces etc with onions.

Maybe try making a big bowl of french onion soup and see if that sets you off? Cutting out all veg would be terrible so you need to find the rogue!