Newly self employed - should I not be charging for this time?

[WearsblackLoveschocolateAvoidspeople]

I started my own small home help business this year. Up to date it has mainly involved helping local elderly clients. I walk their dogs, collect prescriptions and help with light housework etc. I have not be asked nor do I need to take any of my clients anywhere, until recently.

I have been approached by someone I know of (friend of a friend type of thing). Their adult dc who is a wheelchair user lives independently approx. 6 miles from them. They have asked if I could work for their dc for 4 hours on a Friday taking them out to lunch and helping them with shopping etc. I have said this is fine, happy to do this.

The wheelchair user client has their own disability car which I am to use but it is garaged at the parents house. This isn't a problem as the parents live in the next village to me so I am to leave my own car at theirs, collect the disability car then travel to the clients house, pick them up and do what we need to do in the 4 hours etc. I will then drop them back off at their house and drive back to their parents house to drop the car off at theirs, collect my own car and go home.

I have done a couple of trial runs with them and due to the fact their dc lives in the middle of a very busy city the traffic is a nightmare. It takes me around 15-20 mins to get there after initially picking up the car and coming back to drop it off can take me up to an hour as it is the start of rush hour. I have tried a few routes but they all take roughly the same amount of time.

So I have explained that if I were to take this job on my invoice will obviously need to include the time I am in traffic but they have said they are not prepared to pay for that time, they only want to pay for the 4 hours I am actually with their dc. The mother then added that not many people are paid for going to and from work. I have explained that it isn't travelling to and from work because I am using their car so in all sense and purpose I am still working for them until I actually drop the car back off and get into my own. They can not see this.

So, would I be in the wrong to expect to charge them for this time even though I am in their car. Surely that would still be classified as working? or are they right?

Wow they are cheeky!. Your time is worth paying for. Suggest they find an alternative assistant. I am a cleaner and used to take a lady shopping in her paid hours.. Not my unpaid ones.. .

I would honestly consider not doing the job, I’m self employed too and when you get into convos like this, where they’re nitpicking the prices it’s sometimes best just to walk away. Dropping off a car, picking up a car is work and should be part of the price.

Thank you. As I am new to this I sometimes doubt myself. I don't think I will take this job on which is a shame as the client is lovely.

I have been SE for around 17 years and am very very strict about not working for free, you have to be or people can take the piss.
If these people are being that picky at this stage I would walk away. You should be paid from the moment you start work and collecting the car IS part of the job. You should not be paid from the moment you drop off the car but up until that point you are actually working

I would consider your hours being from when you colect the car to dropping it off. Unfortunately this job probably isn't one worth taking on, unless the wheelchair user agrees with you and overrides their mum.

Thanks again. My dh says I a mad to take this job on and he's probably right, more than likely to be more hassle than it is worth.

Swissrollover sadly it seems they agree with everything their parents tell them so I can not see them overriding them.

As you like the client, you could suggest they keep the mobility car where the client lives (permanently or by dropping it off before you arrive) if they don't want to pay for the car to be collected.

If they are only paying you for the time you're with the client, they should make sure the car you need for that task is at the client's address. You are paid from your place of work, not a place 6 miles away.
If they won't bring the car then they are the ones preventing you from doing the job.

You set your terms and conditions so it is fine to charge travel time. They can accept or go elsewhere.

Definitely charge for the time. In addition to it being ridiculous not to pay you for the driving time, how does insurance/liability for the car work if you are not employed whilst driving it?

Youre fine to charge whatever you like, you're self employed.

Even if you were employed, this wouldn't be classed as a 'permanent' place of work, so you could charge for your time/ mileage allowance.

I would suggest they leave the car there for you to use, but stick to your guns.

I'm a self employed carer and yes I would bill them for the time spent delivering and returning the car. Have you got the right business use vehicle insurance and public liability insurance too?

I would also check the proper insurance had been arranged for you to drive the adapted car.

They have a choice. They pay you to collect the car, either as part of or on top of the 4 hours, subject to your agreement of course or they take the car to their relative's home so you can spend the full 4 hours working for their relative and they take it back afterwards.

You picking up and dropping off the car in your own time without payment is not a service you are offering, which is your choice as a self employed person. It's quite normal as a SE person to only take jobs within a certain radius or charge for all travelling time and mileage from when you leave your home.

If they don't agree to your T&Cs then you don't work for them, plus it sounds like they'd be more hassle than the job is worth.

I'm self employed too but work from home so I can go a step further and charge for driving time to site. I appreciate that as a mobile home help that probably isn't something you can do as standard. Absolutely charge for this.

You are working, you are transporting a car to your client. Either you are on your own time or working for them. You aren't driving the car for fun are you!?

If they are only prepared to pay for the time that you spend with the client, then it's their responsibility to get the car to and from her home.

The fact that they can't see the logic and fairness of this makes me think that in the future they will attempt to take advantage of you in other ways. So, all things considered, you would be better not taking on this job.

This.

Absolutely should be their cost.

Completely agree, I also agree with other PP about being strict otherwise people take the piss. To make the comment “people aren’t usually paid to drive to work” tells you everything about them and if I were you I would not take this on. People like this will continue to nit pick, take the piss and generally not appreciate your worth. What a cheek!

The fact is, you cannot possibly be doing any work for another client during the time you are driving their car. Your time in that moment will be dedicated to their service. They should therefore be paying you for it.

It's not like you can choose to stop off on the way and pick up another client's shopping and drop it off, that would be inappropriate. So by refusing to pay you for this time, but expecting you to be available to them only, they are taking the piss.

I’m self employed too and wouldn’t do this because they’re not valuing your time and that’s never a good thing in a client! I’m not nitpicky and often do bits for free for existing clients - like if they have a tiny job that will take 10 minutes I don’t invoice it, or if they have an urgent task I’ll do my best to fit it in. That’s only with people who don’t take the piss though.

You haven’t even started working for them properly yet, I’m sure if you do there’ll be more things like this that come up.

If they’re nitpicking at this stage before you’ve even started working for them, they are going to be nightmare clients.

They need to look elsewhere.

I would suggest the parents pick up the son so he is waiting for you at their house.

If you were to drive to theirs from your house in your own car would it be quicker?

I wouldn’t make any suggestions about where they can leave the car or having their son in a certain place.

They don’t value your time. They’ve already made that crystal clear.

They sound the “give them an inch they’ll take a mile” type of people.

You’ve laid out your T&C’s. They can take it or leave it.

Like other PP here I wouldn't touch this job with a bargepole.

The clients are probably used to quibbling over every inch on an invoice, not a bad thing in and of itself, but when you are being upfront and honest that you need paying for the time, it is. It is your choice on what you charge and when you charge, they can always look for someone else if they don't like it. Clients like these tend not to pay or will waste even more of your time arguing with you over every last penny and then threatening bad reviews.

I spent too long standing on doorsteps, endless emails, or phonecalls asking where's my money months after the invoice was sent is knowing full well I did the job and the hours stated in the invoice. You don't need it it's too much hassle for one client.