Newly self employed - should I not be charging for this time?

[WearsblackLoveschocolateAvoidspeople]

I started my own small home help business this year. Up to date it has mainly involved helping local elderly clients. I walk their dogs, collect prescriptions and help with light housework etc. I have not be asked nor do I need to take any of my clients anywhere, until recently.

I have been approached by someone I know of (friend of a friend type of thing). Their adult dc who is a wheelchair user lives independently approx. 6 miles from them. They have asked if I could work for their dc for 4 hours on a Friday taking them out to lunch and helping them with shopping etc. I have said this is fine, happy to do this.

The wheelchair user client has their own disability car which I am to use but it is garaged at the parents house. This isn't a problem as the parents live in the next village to me so I am to leave my own car at theirs, collect the disability car then travel to the clients house, pick them up and do what we need to do in the 4 hours etc. I will then drop them back off at their house and drive back to their parents house to drop the car off at theirs, collect my own car and go home.

I have done a couple of trial runs with them and due to the fact their dc lives in the middle of a very busy city the traffic is a nightmare. It takes me around 15-20 mins to get there after initially picking up the car and coming back to drop it off can take me up to an hour as it is the start of rush hour. I have tried a few routes but they all take roughly the same amount of time.

So I have explained that if I were to take this job on my invoice will obviously need to include the time I am in traffic but they have said they are not prepared to pay for that time, they only want to pay for the 4 hours I am actually with their dc. The mother then added that not many people are paid for going to and from work. I have explained that it isn't travelling to and from work because I am using their car so in all sense and purpose I am still working for them until I actually drop the car back off and get into my own. They can not see this.

So, would I be in the wrong to expect to charge them for this time even though I am in their car. Surely that would still be classified as working? or are they right?

As soon as you collect the car I would regard that as billable hours.

That they are disputing that bodes ill for a professional relationship with them. One of the big issues of SE is managing clients. These are not clients you want.

I think you should charge from the moment you pick the disability car up until you drop the disability car back at the parents house. They sound like they might be tricky customers, stick to your guns, be prepared to walk away if they won't agree.

Of course you're right, and you set the T&C's. They get to say yes or no.

If the car were at your client's house then you'd just turn the job down as it's not worth your travel time. Same thing.

So they think you like to go driving round in their car in your spare time?

Actually, even if they had the car at their address, you are still able to charge mileage to cover your journey to and from their house.

Perhaps one way to explain this when you regretfully turn the work down is that you won't be able to earn from other clients from the point you arrive at their house to pick up the car that it appears you have to use. It might be worth checking as if the car is motability, there may be limits to the number of drivers insured and approved for the car. Even if they compromise when they struggle with other workers, I'd avoid.

Good luck with other clients.

I expect they are getting direct payments for a certain number of hours support every week, and don't want to pay any extra to cover the travel time at either end. That's not your problem though! Unfortunately they just won't find anyone that will do it for free and they're being pretty cheeky tbh.

Your replies have helped me to set my mind on this, the more I look at this the more I realise I neither want or need this job, as others have pointed out, if they are being this mean with the money they will more than likely be awkward over other issues in the future.

KombuchaHauntsYourBurps I imagine this is the issue. They have told me they have been given enough funds to cover 7 hours and are obviously trying to make the most of that and are just not thinking any further than their own needs.

Employees don’t charge for their time travelling to a place of work, it’s true. But they aren’t offering to employ you! They aren’t offering paid holiday and pension and NIC and sick leave policies etc.

In case you want another line of argument.

I knew it would be that!

I get 3 hours a week direct payments for my son who has additional needs. Fortunately our PA lives very locally to us, and when she takes my son out I cover her mileage and any additional hours she's done (eg if they've gone on a longer trip) out of my own pocket. Also sometimes we just do a time swap - I dog sit for her lovely doggo when she has to work long days or overnight and we keep a tally of hours owed either way.

The fact you're using the mobility car which has to be collected from the parents house is key. If you didn't have to do that, you could do other work in the same city or do your shopping or whatever while you're there anyway. But having to collect and drop the car makes the journey part of the billable hours, no question.

And you're so right about the mean-ness.

People who quibble over money from the outset are always always dicks to work for in the long run!

As an employee, if you were told you have to use this company car that is parked in another town, your day would start when you collect the company car though.

So the OP doesn’t charge to get to the parents house. Fair enough.
But she should charge from when she picks the car up.

For avoidance of doubt, I agree OP should be paid from when she picks the car up.

She’s not an employee though so she can charge whatever she wants. Depending on how far the parents house is from her home she could charge mileage and travel time there too if she wants.

Also if she were an employee and this person’s house was further away than her registered base of work then she would be paid mileage for the additional distance.

Of course you charge, you are working for them while you deliver and return the car.
I think they are trying it on. I really would not touch this one with a barge pole - even if they reluctantly agree, I think they will resent and be difficult.

You have to wonder why the mobility car stays at the parents' house too, why not at the house of the user?
You are quite right OP - your billable time starts when you pick up the car. Which is fine if the 4 hours starts ticking then, it just cuts time with your client a little shorter.

Maybe the DD doesn't have parking. The OP says she lives in a city.

The mother then added that not many people are paid for going to and from work.

Employees aren't no, so perhaps you need to remind them that you are not their employee. You are self-employed, running your own business, and can set your own fees and charges to your clients. They can take it or leave it.

Besides, your place of work could be said to be the wheelchair user's home address, so you travelling from your home to there and back wouldn't be chargeable (although I'd build it into fees anyway). But they are asking you to go elsewhere to collect and drop off a vehicle, so that is extra hours.

Cheeky sods.

I agree with your position. Travel time in their car is part of the job.

If there wasnt a car involved and you just had to visit this person in their own home 6 miles away, using your own vehicle, would you charge for time or fuel?

But it would be to her advantage to get some organised, as surely having a mobility car is pretty useless if isn't where the person is.

I think we can assume the disabled person cant use the car but they are of course eligible so the parents drive it, hence its at their house.

There is limited parking where the wheelchair user lives so yes, the car stays at the parent's house and they see their dc most days and run many errands for them so it probably makes sense to keep the car at the parents house.

I probably wouldn't if it was my own car but in my own car I am free to go off to work for another client afterwards, go shopping, attend a hospital appointment, meet with a friend etc. I can not do any of those things if I still have the mobility car so am in all sense and purpose I am still at work.

Fair points! I just wondered. Use those arguments to the parents as they're really strong.