just got back from japan. omg wow.

[TheBlueHoney]

What a country! I saw much right there compared to Britain. 100x better infrastructure, friendlier people, safer street, luxury amazing looking roads, most well behaved children I've ever seen, modesty, people dress well, public transport etiquette, quality of food and healthy population, fantastic healthcare, longest life expectancy, lowest infant mortality, prices/affordability about same as London but get way more for your money everything better quality and no tipping culture, public bathrooms accessible everywhere and so clean and modern with built in tech. I could go on and on.

Absolutely shocking.

I have mixed feelings about Japan. Really like and respect all the Japanese people I know. I'm aware of everything that's exceptionally good about Japan. There are so many impressive things about Japanese society.
But there's another side to it. The fact you can buy worn teenage girls knickers in vending machines, the fact that men can openly look at porn on the subway. The fact that men can openly grope women on the subway and women have to be sweet and nice and put up with it. My Japanese friend told be about all of the above.
There's also a lot of racism. My Japanese friend married a Turkish man which was really frowned upon. People called her babies hairy monkeys and said all Turkish people (and Indians, Africans etc) were monkeys.
My beirush friend lived there fir remember years but ended up leaving because he couldn't stand the culture of being a slave to your job. People were expected to work really long hours and give up their lives for their companies. It's partly why the suicide rate is so high.

Pretty on the outside. Rotten underneath. Visit but don't live there.

That's simply about owning property. Actually living in Japan full time is a whole other issue.

Buying a house in Japan is not really different to buying a house anywhere else, but that doesn't mean you can live there permanently.

We have a small holiday home in Mallorca but we can only stay there for 90 days out of every 180 without a visa. It's the same thing with Japan, you can only stay there for up to 90 days without a visa.

"...I read there are many empty houses."

These are mostly in rural areas. The population of Japan has been falling for the last 15 years as the birth rate has dropped. Japan's population peaked in around 2010 and has been falling since then.

Many firms, especially in the service sector and construction, just can't find enough workers.

In addition, many younger people prefer to live in cities rather than rural areas. You see the same sort of thing happening in rural parts of Italy and Spain.

"Do you know why it isn't a popular place for immigrants who feel displaced in their country of birth to move to?"

Most of the countries that are the source of refugees are a lot closer to Europe than to Japan and also people are more likely to speak English or other european languages.

But also, because they reject most asylum seekers that apply.

Last year the UK had 67,337 asylum applications relating to 84,425 people. Japan had 13,823 applications of whom they accepted just 303.

A further 1,005 were granted permission to reside in Japan on humanitarian grounds despite not qualifying for refugee status.

"Affordable housing. You can buy a family house just outside Tokyo for about 150,000 (or even less if you’re willing to live in a really old place"

This is only the case because houses only last a few decades in Japan due to frequent earthquakes. There isn't the culture of inheritance there is in the uk.

You can pay your 150000 for your family home but once you're elderly it will be worth 0. Your DCs/grandchildren will have to build a new home on the land.

New houses are worth more than old, the opposite from the uk.

Getting citizenship is vv difficult. There are 3rd generation Korean immigrants who still aren't eligible for Japanese citizenship.

The history of how Japan treated Korea/koreans is awful. Thousands live in Japan but are treated as second class.

I know Japan presents as a most amazing, tidy, neat, brilliant culture, almost futuristic, perfect place, perfect people, perfect life. But nothing is what it seems. If you feel it's such a brilliant place, may I respectfully suggest you go and try and live there for two or three years ... ? See what you think of it then. I think your opinion may change somewhat.

I think most people know its not a perfect society and most people are going as tourists for a week or two and enjoy seeing something different and expierenceing different foods, different ways if doing things.
No one brings up poverty, discrimination etc when someone says they had a nice time in Spain. I havent seen anyone go into Irelands historic troubles, poverty, misogyny, abuse when some says they had a great weekend in Dublin.

Op,you may have been posting this in 'holidays'

Sooooooo much better than UK. You don’t see spit and dog shit all over the pavements for one thing…

Amazing country in many aspects - modern infrastructure, considerate people, low crime etc. On the other hand most people are pretty racist, there’s a lot of misogyny, and a poor work-life balance for many. And of course don’t mention the war, where Japan committed atrocities comparable to the Nazis at their worst but which has all been wiped from the collective memory (except for the bits where their population were the victims).

I love Japan and took my 2 year old last year
and yes agree with all you’ve said

but I’ve also worked for a Japanese company in London office and had business trips to Tokyo office

the work / office culture is toxic

people who did a year from Tokyo in London office were nearly in tears having to go back there as it was a much nicer work environment in London
so reality of living there prob quite different from Holidays

@knitnerd90 i did wonder whether the Japanese issues with low birth rate were similar to those the women in this very interesting BBC article described:

Why South Korean women aren't having babies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68402139

OP I find blanket “all or nothing Japan is amazing end of” posts like yours extremely naive.

It strikes me as sexually weird. Pornified anime etc

I absolutely hated it and would never go back.

The misogyny was everywhere. I felt like the men simply hated women.

And the ridiculous simpering and giggling adult professional women engaged in at every interaction, when nothing remotely funny was happening, did my head in.

Horses for courses I guess. If that’s your bag, Japan is the place for you, but I felt very unsafe as a lone female traveler.

DH and I would love to go to Japan- we'd like to do a long, child-free holiday (not going to happen 😁).

I often muse about leaving the UK and where we could go- usually silly suggestions as we are not leaving. Japan appeals in some ways but it is one of those countries that geographically feels vulnerable- closeness to China, Russia, North Korea plus tsunamis.

I don't think the culture here is similar to that extent. There are other issues here and Japan has some, but I don't see how you're getting to your conclusion. Is it people you know?

With their attitudes towards people with disabilities, I hope not.

If you feel it's such a brilliant place, may I respectfully suggest you go and try and live there for two or three years ... ? See what you think of it then. I think your opinion may change somewhat.

All the patronising negging holiday police on this thread!

I don't want to live in Japan....so you can keep your "respectful suggestion" to yourself. And yes I'm aware of the sexism and schoolgirl fetishes/pedphilia and misogyny (which are apparently a huge, unbearable problem in Japan but not in the UK or other western countries.... really?) but as a tourist, it's one of those places that blows your mind - the architecture and design is above and beyond, and many architects would concur, so are the gardens, the literature (Breasts and Eggs has a lot to say about Japanese culture that I found far more nuanced than anything I've read here), the food, the landscapes, the onsen... it's an amazing unique place to visit and a fascinating culture.

In the same way that Italy, Greece, Bali and many other places are good at welcoming tourists, Japan does this very very well and other countries could really learn from it.... we are visitors, we don't speak the language, of course we're not going to understand what it's truly like, but that's the case with every country you're not familiar with.

It doesn't make it wrong to admire the many things that the Japanese do unlike anyone else. "Oh but you don't realllly understand" is just irritating when I had a wonderful holiday there and fully understand that it's not real life.

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. The take home message seems to be that it’s a wonderful country to visit & the experience as a tourist there seems to be overwhelmingly positive. And there do seem to be a lot of people that idolise Japan & say that they do everything right compared to us (reminds me of the irritating tendency to hero worship the Scandinavian countries). Anyone I know that has lived in Japan has found it problematic in certain areas (much as you would find in any country) particularly work/ life balance, the insular nature of the culture & the inherent misogyny.
I would love to visit one day & the closest I have come to doing so is Taiwan which I would also recommend. It is very similar culturally to Japan. Again though friends that taught there saw the downsides to the culture.

I absolutely hated it and would never go back.

The misogyny was everywhere. I felt like the men simply hated women.
I didn't expierence this at all.
In what way did you feel men hated women? I found some men went above and beyond to help, one example, when I got lost. One guided me to near where I needed to be and with a bow he was gone. There are many more

And the ridiculous simpering and giggling adult professional women engaged in at every interaction, when nothing remotely funny was happening, did my head in nor this, how odd! I found women very helpful, chatty and often funny.

Horses for courses I guess. If that’s your bag, Japan is the place for you, but I felt very unsafe as a lone female traveler. Although I went with Dh, for various reasons I spent blot of time alone. I felt safe at night walking around. I always have my wits about me, especially in unfamiliar places in tbe dark but I never got bad vibes or my gut telling me I was in danger like it has done before.

As an aside, in terms of the food, I’ve heard mixed things too in terms of not always being sure what you are ordering! I think this is more the case when you are outside Tokyo. What types of food/ dishes did people sample in Japan? Where was the food best? In Taiwan the 7/11 did some very strange Western/ Asian hybrid sandwiches that were not altogether successful!

It all comes at a price.

My sister in law is Japanese and gave birth in Japan and this wasn’t the case at all. She had an active birth, with a birthing stool, I think.

Femme2804
My eldest stepson's wife is Japanese, and they have a (just over) one year old.
They want her to go to the Japanese school in London when she's old enough. My stepdaughter in law is lovely, she has the most beautiful manners (she was brought up in Japan) she says she was never hit or subjected to any kind of punishment, just taught how to behave well both at school and at home, as was her brother, they were both treated the same.
She's also very confident (has her own business) and works hard at a job she loves. She very much believes that women can do and be what they want to.
I think a lot of that's down to her parents, though, as much as her education, they seem to be very supportive in that respect.

If my (step) granddaughter turns out like her mum she'll be a credit to them.

I'd love to see a thread of Japanese people discussing UK society and its cultural norms. It would be very interesting to see what they make of us!

Haha I am intrigued?

Well said. However you have to remember this is MN, where some people exist only to tear others down, presumably due to their own sad little lives.

Incidentally I know people who have lived there for two or three years, and still raved about it.