Is it normal for primary schools to make children ask permission to eat their puddings?

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DS has started reception. New parents were invited to lunch. Lovely.
The head teacher then told us the rules. They have to eat their main, then raise their hands and ask permission to eat dessert. And if the teacher decides they've eaten enough main they're "allowed" to eat pudding.

My DS just sat down and ate his biscuit before I realised, then ate his dinner (he left 2 chips).

Anyway whoops 😬

Is this normal though?

Not normal in the schools I've worked in. Pudding isn't brought out until later so there's no temptation to be eaten first.

Because it gives the impression that the delicious sweet pudding is the reward for eating the lame main. Food shouldn't be used as rewards.

Also, you have the potential for them to overeat, because they are being told to eat more food than they want.

Plus there's nothing stopping them going back to finish main if still hungry.

We don't often have pudding. When we do, we all decide we've had enough main and move onto pudding.

Or if it's like a lunch or packed lunch, often the yoghurt or biscuit or whatever is on the plate/in the box, and it gets eaten in whatever order they like. He's been known to eat a carrot stick, take a it of digestive, eat his sandwich, then the rest of the biscuit, then his cheese etc.

I have a feeling that this will lead to a lot of sad kids trying to force down large plates of food they don’t want to try some of the pudding.

Those who are concerned about the kids "filling up on pudding"- have you seen the size of the puddings they serve? No chance it would fill a mouse.

What happens if the child, for whatever reason, hasn’t eaten their main course? Are they allowed to eat their pudding? Surely it’s better to at least eat that rather than nothing at all?

Actually we did this approach to cure DD’s picky eating and it worked marvellously – she won’t always have pudding, having filled up happily on main course, and eats a varied diet, and is always willing to try new things. Never have to bribe her; it’s there on the table and she’ll try it or, if not the first time, the next. Works for us!

My parents did it the other way around and I didn’t eat a vegetable till I left home. But as with everything, it does depend on the kid and the personality. I understand why schools have a blanket rule, but equally, blanket rules are only ever going to work for some, not all, children.

The main meal tends to be more nutritious than the puddings. I don't think it's difficult for kids to understand. All this talk of rewards sounds like adults projecting their experiences from the 'clear your plate' days.

'And if the teacher decides they've eaten enough main they're "allowed" to eat pudding'

This is shit and I wouldn't like this. Some arbitrary decision of when a child has eaten 'enough' and pudding being used as a reward that some children just won't get. Old-fashioned shite.

We let them eat as they please. We have a lot of recent UK arrivals and a lot of sensory need, which means a lot of the school food feels 'wrong' to many children. Sweet, stodgy pudding feels safe. Too many to have individual plans really, as there's not enough staff to police. There is also a lot of financial need, so we would prefer they ate something rather than nothing, as many will not be able to fill up at home, instead.

In a school where we provide breakfast to all, free snacks for all and food parcels for all who request, this feels right. I'd go to war with SLT if food policy led to children going without eating anything at all at lunch.

And if a kid doesn't want or like their main course then of course they should be able to at least eat their pudding so they've got something in their stomachs.

Yes of course they would be allowed to eat their pudding even if they refuse the meal. But, if it was happening daily, parents would be told so they are aware and can address at home or in partnership with school.

You say they would be allowed, and they might be at your school. However, it's not actually clear if the OP's child would be allowed to eat their pudding. especially if they hadn't eaten any of the main.

And if the teacher decides they've eaten enough main they're "allowed" to eat pudding.

Unfortunately most schools use catering companies and can’t design the menu / serving plan themselves. Serving everything at once is better logistically.

Of course the child would be allowed to eat the pudding even if they'd eaten absolutely nothing of the main meal. Do you honestly think anyone would send a child off having eaten nothing at all if they could prevent that?

The fact the child has to check in however would alert the staff that they had only eaten the pudding which can then be passed onto the teacher and parents. If they don't have to ask then in a busy hall it would be very easy for it to go unnoticed.

I don't agree it makes the sweet thing seems as favourable over the "bland" main meal. It's about talking to your children from an early age about nutrition and making them understand that our body needs a lot of vegetables and protein and carbs too, to remain healthy. We need less of the sweet stuff, so we have to eat the stuff our body needs to be healthy first anf in larger portions before we take a portion of the stuff we get less stuff from to energise our body.

Bit ...this is a "clear your plate" method...

Yes, my child understands that veggies are better nutritionally, bit it doesn't mean he should be forced to ask permission or eat more main than he wants just to eat a biscuit.

Of course the child would be allowed to eat the pudding even if they'd eaten absolutely nothing of the main meal. Do you honestly think anyone would send a child off having eaten nothing at all if they could prevent that?

Of course not. I would hope every child would be allowed to eat their pudding, regardless of how much of their main they have eaten. But OP is saying that's not the case. Unfortunately dinner halls are busy places, and there's always a chance a child will be overlooked. Especially if they feel they can't ask for permission to eat their pudding, because they're worried they will be told no and they need to eat more of their dinner. Like I said it might work when there are more staff, but the higher ratios don't last.

its not about forcing a child to eat, it’s about encouraging them to eat something. It’s not a case of you can’t have your pudding until you have eaten every crumb of the main. It’s “are you sure you have eaten enough, we don’t want you hungry this afternoon”

if a child hasn’t eaten it can then be fed back to their teacher and if needed parents to keep an eye. Can you imagine the complaints if a parent posted “school are letting my child just eat a biscuit for his dinner ever day”

Exactly this. I'm occasionally around (as a teacher) at dinnertime and if a child really isn't going to eat anything else of course they're allowed to get pudding. It's just double checking they really can't eat any more off what's still a full plate, especially when you know they won't get fed another decent meal that day. Honestly, most people in a school do actually have good intentions.

It wasn't a thing when my children were small (they are mostly adults now with the youngest being 15).

However I remember this being a thing when I was at infants and primary school (back when dinosaurs roamed according to my kids).

Most of the puddings are made with fruit or vegetables or sweetened with fruit juice. Most schools also always have fruit and yoghurt on offer

Children don't have to eat the whole of the main meal, but are encouraged to eat some. Most schools have a wide range of food on offer. By getting them to ask it's a good way of monitoring how much they are eating. In the same way children having pack lunch are asked to keep any leftovers in the lunchbox rather than chuck them in the bin, so parents can monitor what they are eating.

If lunchtime supervisor notices a child is only eating a mouthful of main meal every day then a communication can be sent to parent to find a solution

Because it gives the impression that the delicious sweet pudding is the reward for eating the lame main. Food shouldn't be used as rewards.

Nah, this all a bit dramatic.

Kids need a balanced diet.

They don't need to be diving head first into their pudding and flicking the middle finger at the main course 🤣

The vast majority of kids would live on sweet puddings only if their parents served them at the same time.

And schools really don't have the time and capacity to serve them separately.