Lucy Letby in the news

[Viviennemary]

I've just been watching the BBC news and apparently some experts have been questioning the validity of Lucy Letbys conviction. I must say when I read the details of the trial she did sound 100% guilty. But it would be a tragedy if she is innocent Personally I don't think she is but who knows. Somebody on the news said the only person who knows is Lucy Letby.

Actually think lots who have worked on neonatal units or in ICU’s do have more knowledge than a a lay person on jury, that have only been given facts that fits the prosecution narrative. She only had one person speak in her defence a plumber how is that a fair trial? Think this has bigger implications not only judiciary, unions & medical staff.

I think the evidence they presented was probably bias… including her rota plus her personal notes and journal for me is not enough.

But I do believe she is guilty… concern was raised by a few doctors.

The system. A unit that was poorly staff in terms of both numbers and experience with questionable infection prevention. And of course the sad truth that premature poorly babies sometimes die.

The unit got downgraded. I can't remember the exact details but something like they could only take babies born after 32 weeks rather than 28 weeks. And no doubt more experienced doctors were placed on the unit, staffing levels increased after her arrest etc etc

So do lots of my elderly colleagues doesn’t mean they are right though. I certainly felt for a whole life sentence with no physical evidence witness evidence except one doctor who watched her doing nothing while he did nothing & never reported it. I’ve had a consultant saying nursing staff are easy to get rid of, & doctors are so much more important. I don’t doubt what she was saying.

She had saved hard bought her own house had a good social life, holding her own in a demanding career. Think any parents of any young female adult being accused of what she was accused of would be supporting her. Think you have the problem.

No one, just poor medical care they were out of their depth & no one would put their hands up & say they couldn’t cope. Think Lucy actually did look where that got her.

If his story is to be believed he already suspected her, went in because he was uneasy about her being in there and then his suspicions were proven to be correct because she was standing there doing nothing while the baby was deteriorating but he didn't say anything and left her on the ward, then there was a further desat of the same baby and after that At 7.19am, door swipe data shows Dr Jayaram is shown heading towards the office part of the hospital. He says at this point, he believed everything was stable, and he would be preparing for the day ahead without going home.

How would he think everything was stable if Letby was still there and he believed she was the one harming the baby?

A few minutes later he was called back after the baby deteriorated again.

And again Letby was left there when he left 🤔

How was she childlike and repressed exactly?
She was only around 25.She had a good job. She had bought her own house. She had loads of friends and a very active social life.
That's a lot less childlike than many other 25 year olds.

It seems that she might have 'regressed' when she was accused of harming babies and then relied on her parents, but if she didn't do it then that would be a seriously traumatic thing to happen and age regression can happen due to trauma.

Where was her defence team? They could have wiped the floor with him why didn’t they? Something makes me feel very uneasy about the whole thing. People have reported the doctor who made between £80-150k a year for the last 7 years to the GMC. Did they go to the police trying to get management to act or has this taken on a life of its own. She was arrested 3 times that in itself worried me.

She wrote "I don't deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough. I did this." I mean, she wrote a whole lot of stuff including meaningless scribbles; she was clearly not a well or happy woman.

But if you're feeling terrible about deaths that happened on your watch - or, say, you'd hit someone with your car - you might well write "I killed them, I did this, I'm a terrible evil person."* But "on purpose"? *

I've written long, rambling and weird journals while mentally ill. Not quite as weird as these notes, but I get it. The person who wrote those was feeling incredibly distressed. This doesn't mean she wasn't a murderer.

Those of you who're very interested in the case would find the Reddit sub interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/lucyletby/

Thread about the note(s): www.reddit.com/r/lucyletby/comments/16331xl/the_note_transcribed/

The doctors had no proof either.

Reading the New Yorker article goes into depth and is a real eye opener. The reporting in some UK papers has been uncritical in comparison to this. Perhaps because it takes time to do proper investigative journalism and read through transcripts.

I hope her appeal is heard on a timely basis. If she is innocent - the families and her have been failed terribly.

No not that, it's a particular term for an investigation or trial that works backwards from a presumption of guilt.

That sub is extremely biased!
For balance also check out the r/lucyletbytrials and r/sciencelucyletby subreddits!

@HollyKnight it's the prosecutors fallacy I was thinking of. The Letby case has features in common with the prosecution of Sally Clark, whose conviction was overturned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy

Oh my goodness. I am so sorry to read this!!
move had previous miscarriages and I couldn’t imagine being treated that way!
I guess it says it all.. I’m totally with you. She deserves no sympathy
sending you love for what you’ve been through.

Somehow I would trust her very experienced defence team over random people on social media who weren't in court and haven't seen the evidence.

What have the doctor's earnings got to do with anything?

Having read the rest of the thread, this post has been discussed at length and the conclusion is this was not Lucy Letby.

Having read the New Yorker link, I think the case for a retrial is compelling.

I’m not 100% convinced of her guilt, certainly not beyond all reasonable doubt. Even more so since the CPS admitted giving incorrect info to the jury.

It's no coincidence that every death happened on her shift to a child in her care.

It's no coincidence that she was caught - tubes out, injecting babies that didn't need injections etc.

It's no coincidence insulin levels were excessively high in those babies tested.

I personally am utterly sick we continue to believe psycopaths/people with psychopathic tendencies because they somehow charm us. Look at how vacant her eyes are when confronted. How her responses are slow and measured.

I have zero time for her or dogooders saying that the court got it wrong. They didn't.

This is not the same as Sally Clark, which I knew was an unsafe conviction at the time with an incredibly tragic impact.

As a health care professional having worked in an underfunded hosptial ward I have been suspcious of the connvictions AND the acquittals. I also have diary enteries that are incredibly emotional when patients died as a way of coping.I also was single, childless and living on my own so was able to pick up more shifts. I have also worked departments with bullying seniors who pick on vulnerable staff members as a way of covering their own incompetence and I have worked in a department where incompetent members of staff was directly linked with several incidents before they were moved to a more supervised position. My point is that none of the behaviour that has been reported on made me think of murder just a terribly trust with poor outcomes.

There is some question of the validity of some of the evidence, and there was an increase in deaths in the hosptial overall. What made me actually question it, was the behaviour of the main doctor, something about him was so unprofressional he behaved by doing interviews about his involvment that I found myself questioning his motive. He seemed to be focussed on being a hero by pointing fingers rather than acutally engaging in MDT improvement process which would be the normal way of going about a spike in deaths.

However, because even the thought of a nurse being accused of murdering babies makes me think that I want actual "smoking gun" evidence. This will never happen and she will never confess. I also recognise as we are so similar that have huge empathy with her it makes it hard for me to see from the reports. I simply didn't hear the whole of the evidence, we can never know for certain. I think thats the hardest part.

They changed the protocol so didn’t take take babies born before a certain gestation anymore, so no, it’s not an odd coincidence but change in admissions criteria. I think they only took babies born after 34wks instead of the very early babies they used to take

@mnahmnah I’m very sorry you had to go through that. However, you shouldn’t be going around saying that she definitely was the nurse you saw. You’re spreading misinformation.

You saw her on the news months/years after your scan and it probably altered your memory of the person performing the scan. We aren't very good at remembering a face we saw once, but our brains are fantastic at joining the dots so you see a similar face on the news and your brain fills in the gaps.

You definitely were not scanned by a neonatal nurse.

It wouldn’t have been her you saw. Neonatal nurses wouldn’t be allowed to do scans