Help Me Help My Son (School related).

[GeneHuntsCowboyBoots]

I’ve added some bits in bold if you can’t be bothered to read the whole lot but the last couple of paragraphs are probably important. I’d be really grateful for ideas.

He’s 14. Just about to start Year 10. He’s always ‘struggled’ with school, albeit not in always an obvious way. He was always in middle groups in primary and then also in the last few years where he has been in Yr 7, Yr 8 and Yr 9 of secondary.

For a few years I’ve suspected some form of ND (potentially ADHD) but was never clued up on it enough and the SenCo at primary didn’t think it was anything worth raising. I asked for him to be tested for dyslexia because our eldest son was only diagnosed at sixth form. That came back with no concerns. He is currently on the pathway for testing for ADHD and ASD after me raising concerns and following the process.

Since being in secondary, he had a supply teacher for maths in Yr 8 who never did parents’ evenings. And at the parents’ evenings we were always given very limited information about other subjects. This was because of them often changing teachers and the teacher we were seeing at the time not having enough information because they’d only known him for a couple of weeks.

We have raised it a few times, including with his head of year that we just want to know how he’s getting on and what we can do to support him and we never get a decent reply. The HOY sat with us for 10 mins one year at parents’, listening to us explaining our concerns about not having a clear idea of how he’s doing, she then promised to gather some info from his teachers and would contact us. That didn’t happen. We raised it with the deputy head and we did get some information but it’s all very vague. Like “he’s doing ok” and not much more.

This is pretty much how it’s been for his whole time there. He’s very recently, so going into Yr 10, been moved from set 4 in maths to the very bottom (I think set 7). This concerns me because surely if things are getting bad to the point of this, then we should be made aware and not told everything is ok.

We get reports every half term but they literally say what his effort is like and if there are any concerns (about his work) - apart from once, these have always been good and no concerns.

This is an ‘outstanding’ school and one his big sister also went to and she had a completely different experience. She was academic, in top sets, and there was very regular contact and information relating to how well she had done.

It seems to me that because they’re not academic, they’re just sort of ignored and forgotten about.

I appreciate that schools and teachers are pushed to their limits but surely if they can be proactive about the high achieving kids, they can do the same for the not so high achieving ones?

I really worry for my son because he really has no interest in anything at school and I do think it’s mostly because he finds it difficult. I’m worried he’ll not do well at GCSE’s. And I know GCSE results don’t reflect the person as a whole but there is a focus on them and I want to help him achieve the best he can and for him not to be held back because he’s overlooked and/or is ND. I appreciate that he may still not achieve high grades as some people are just not cut out for it, but as I say, I don’t want him to be held back if there’s something to be done.

Have you ever seen test papers that he's done, or homework that he's had marked, or a physical exercise book? Do they do regular testing in maths? What event caused the large drop down in maths set?

Has he started his GCSE courses in year 9?

You need to speak directly to every one of his subject teachers. This should be possible by emailing them and asking for a call after or before school. If they don't then go the head and say your not happy with the communication around your son. Ask for a meeting with them. Would you be able to get a tutor for maths and English if his struggling he will really benefit from one to one

We get used/full books brought home when he doesn’t need them at school anymore. I’ve looked through them but they seem quite ‘normal’..not masses of red crosses or anything and the odd comment but nothing significant. We never get to see them at school evenings.

He changed to his GCSE course classes a couple of weeks before they broke up in July. And we don’t know about the drop in maths. This is kind of why we’re frustrated. I was going to try and contact them to query before they broke up but I honestly thought what’s the point at the time. I thought it might be better to wait until they go back, hence me asking for advice now.

edited for typos!

Thank you. I’ve thought about tutors before. But when I mentioned it to school they seemed to think it was unnecessary! I now see that was likely wrong.

I’ve tried emailing his teachers before and often the don’t reply. I’ve thought about a complaint to the head but last time it got ‘intercepted’ by the deputy head and we sort of got some information. It’s just all so half arsed!

Does your son know why he was dropped down sets? Was it after a series of tests that he didn't perform in?

Regardless, I would seek a face to face meeting with the head of maths, by phoning the school. Then send an email summarising what you said on the phone, to the head of maths and cc in the head.

I think that English and Maths tutors might be a good idea, even if only short term so that you can get a direct and detailed summary of his current levels and any gaps/issues.

Schools do not generally recommend tutors as it would imply their teaching isn't good.

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't but it's not their question to answer it is yours.

So in terms of information:

Your son presumably did ks2 sats (or was he a Covid year?). What did he get in that?

From his ks2 sats results a gcse target will
Have been generated. Schools are not always happy to share these with parents - I remember my school changed all gcse targets below a 4 to a 4 after a parent got upset at Parents evening that their kid was targeted a 3 and they felt it wasn't a good enough target.
(Their kid who I taught hadn't done any work in the 5 years they had been at secondary and had done badly in ks2 sats.)

Normally schools will have some kind of end of year assessment or test which the results are then reported to parents. What has come home in his school reports? Any target grades?

Not all schools do this, and in ks3 there is no national system of measuring how well kids are doing so most schools have made up their own. This does tend to come home to roost in ks4 as most parents understand gcse grades.

Either way, if he has been moved to bottom set I'd get him a tutor now.

I’d get him a tutor to increase his confidence. Or purchase an online course through absolutemaths

School aside, aim to build up some hobbies outside of school, something he can do well and feel good about

Get a tutor, they can assess him. Go to a reputable tutoring company or get a recommendation and check their credentials.

My attitude has always been that the school provides the skeleton and we the parents, provide the rest. I don't trust the school system to help my child achieve their best.
My child had be behavioural issues, was coasting along in the middle fine so the school weren't bothered by anything else.
I, however, wanted to push them that it further so they got good GCSEs and good a levels.
Yes it's true that good exam results are not everything but they sure open a helluva lot of doors and give you opportunities.

Trust your instincts op. Get a tutor and start managing him. He needs extra support and the school cannot provide that.
My child's maths tutor said he should be doing a little bit of maths every day or so. Just 15 minutes or so to pull him back up and that's what we did. He suggested Maths genie.
My child got a 7.
We didn't have any other tutors but helped with all the subjects. YouTube is brilliant and helped him to stay on top of all his subjects. We made sure he had a slot daily for some brief revision.

Thanks everyone. It’s really appreciated. I’ve felt frustrated for so long, so it’s good to see some options.

@SilenceInside I’ve asked him and he says he has no idea! It potentially could have been tests but I will definitely check it out. And I will look for tutors too. My friend is a maths tutor so I will ask for her advice. She currently lives and works abroad so not sure if she’d be available/suitable but at least she might be able to point me in the right direction.

@Octavia64 thank you. He did do SATs and I think he got “just under” what was expected for a ‘pass’..I can’t remember exactly the scores etc. The Yr 6 teacher at the time reassured me that this would enable his secondary school to see how he had done and what would be needed to get him on the right path. We never get the results of tests or assessments - the only thing we get is the half term report about effort and concerns, which have always been ok. The only other thing we got is a how he’s doing in relation to the rest of his year group. That was also confusing because he always scored low in that but whenever I queried it, the teachers said he was fine and he was doing as expected. Maybe that’s the same as what you’re explaining in terms of his target grade that was previously set and he was where they expected from that.

We’ve tried offering hobbies but he’s never interested in anything for long. (Wonder if that’s the potential ND). We’ve tried football, swimming, karate and ice skating but he prefers to be with his friends. He does have a good best friend and some lovely groups of friends at school too and he goes out to play football or to the cinema or on bike rides etc so I’m not too concerned in that respect.

Ok.

So the "expected" sats result for ks2 sats is 100. If a child gets that they are working at age related expectations as primary schools put it.

If he got below that then he wasn't quite at age related expectations.

This website has some more detail (ignore the bit about ks1 sats)

www.explorelearning.co.uk/free-resources/ks1-and-ks2-sats-scores-explained/

Now you might think that means he's doing ok. You would be wrong,

61% of children get above 100 in ks2 sats. Age related expectations are meant to be a minimum not a target.

So he went into secondary basically behind.

At secondary, they will have taken his ks2 sats score and used it to set target grades for GCSEs.

For example this is how one school does it:

waltonstaffs.com/assessment-at-key-stage-3/

If he has a ks2 sats score of under 100 his target grades are probably 3s.

What that means is that most children coming into secondary with a ks2 score under 100 do actually fail most of their GCSEs.

They make progress, and they learn things, but only if they put in extra effort or get tutors etc do they stand a cat in hells chance of passing anything.

You would know if your son had been putting in massive effort and you'd know if he had a tutor.

Secondary school are reporting everything fine because he came in behind and he is improving and learning things and is on track. That track will not lead to him passing his GCSEs and if what you state is accurate then if you want him to pass some he needs to do some work and you need to get a tutor.

We were worried about my DS early last year when he was P5 (age 9). Decent school reports but they mainly went on about how well he behaved rather than his actual work. And I suspected his maths wasn't up to scratch. Got a tutor who assessed him and he was behind in numeracy. Also suspected dyslexia which was later diagnosed. All missed by the school. He's just started private school which is going great but if we had stayed in state we'd have stuck with the tutor. Worth every penny.

Thank you so much. That makes total sense now. For some reason the number 95 is ringing some bells out of nowhere..I wonder if that would be his score?

It’s so bloody frustrating that they’ve never explained it as that or even suggested that we could be doing stuff to help him at home. They don’t even get homework!! Apart from some online ‘Sparx’ which we do.

I’ll definitely get him tutor/s.

This is exactly the same…such a lovely (but quiet) boy, never misbehaves, always polite, but hardly ever any details about his work!!

Sadly, we can’t afford private school but definitely can tutor/s.

Those starting Y10 didn’t do KS2 SATs because of covid.

Oh, maybe he was just given a grade based on what they thought then. Though I could have sworn they did do them. He was definitely in school for the end of Yr 6 (2021) though.

KS2 SATS were definitely cancelled in 2019/20 and 2020/21. It is why secondary school performance data will be more limited in 2025 and 2026 because it won’t be possible to calculate progress 8.

The drop could be because they don't set maths unless they are students heading for higher although quite unusual.
He could have dropped down because he would benefit from a slower pace or that that is a class with a dedicated TA that can offer extra assistance regardless of ability.
If his school streamed as ours did with groups 1-4 in X band and 1-3 in Y band, group 4 was always the nurture group and then when they started GCSEs they were streamlined to 1-7.

What you do need to do though is get him interested in something outside of school, something to build his confidence up because if he is likely to get low grades in his exams which is likely if he was predicted a 95 at the end of KS2 he needs that to keep him motivated.

I used to teach young lad that was severely dyslexic, got 1s as 2s in his GCSEs as he had lost interest but also found it incredibly difficult. His mum had got him a Saturday job working at a local garage whilst at school tinkering with cars and fixing people's bikes and he is in his 20s now and runs the place. Knowing he had something to go to after school was area game changer and meant al his self worth wasn't in those grades.

Thank you. He was in X4 previously. So that makes sense too.

I wish I could get him interested in something. I just don’t know what. He doesn’t want to go to any clubs or anything. He’s mainly interested in his computer games and computer stuff..but, as I say, he still goes out to the park for a kick about, or out on his bike with his friends. And they do swimming and cinema etc. He’d much rather be out and about in the fresh air than tied to his games given the choice though. I’ve asked him lots of times over the years if there’s anything he fancies trying or that he really enjoys and he always replies with nothing.

Edited to say - he was saying about this new maths group that the work was ‘so easy’. He said they were doing the 5 times tables at one point, which he was astounded about, because ‘they are so easy’. As I said above, he was only in there for a few weeks prior to breaking up for the summer so maybe it will be different when we go back.

Why not find something you can do together? The thought of doing something alone / being the new person can be overwhelming even if they don't express it. DD (also going into yr 10 and autistic) and I have started to do couch 2 5k, well she runs it and I walk but we chat during the warm up and cool down, other family activities that you share even if you don't physically do them together but go at the same time could be the gym or climbing either roped or at a bouldering centre. Air cadets is great for his age too as they do lots of activities both academic, hands on engineeringy, physical and sporty, get to go flying, work skills like first aid courses.

Being an outdoor instructor is a great avenue for those that struggle with academics. I had friends that started off with a Saturday job working at a sports centre on the climbing wall, apprenticeship at 18 at an outdoor activity centre (Kingswood/PGL/Robin Wood type place), then a few summer seasons overseas as kids club reps then scuba instructors / winters at ski resorts and have lived and worked in the Alps as a mountain guide for the last 15 years. Courses all paid for by the employers, not massively well paid roles but fun and mostly have food and board included.

Thank you again. I’ll look into your suggestions. I have illnesses and disabilities so I’m not able for the more active stuff but DH (his dad) and him often go for long bike rides and he enjoys that. We do also do family stuff but it’s more going for a drive and stopping off for a cuppa somewhere and sometimes a walk with me on my mobility scooter - that’s limited because of me though but he still enjoys it.

He seems like a happy, well rounded lad, but is very shy and ‘awkward’ and socially anxious.

My DD does Young Wardens at the local nature reserve, perfect for quieter teens, she's doing it as part of her DoE but it's great 4 hours once a month for less than £10, they do them at lots of places.

Me-railing a little bit here so to generalise if a child did not get 100 (so ‘pass’ basically) would they not be expected to pass GCSE?

My child is going into y6 and have sort of gone with the SATS are for the school and perhaps misguidedly thought a poor result might get help. I have so far been told they are not doing badly enough to get support at present.

My worry they are going to end up in this bottom group where she is written off as there is no expectation for passing or the school need to prioritise resources to those who get the 100 or just over.

Do I need to push now to try and get the ‘pass’?

@ColdinNovember

So there is a sense in which a child who does badly in the sats will get help at secondary.

Many secondaries run some kind of nurture group where kids who are very behind are in a much smaller class (maybe 10 or 15 rather than 30). They'll cut down the curriculum in the hope that the students can retain some of what they are taught. So no point teaching (for example) Pythagoras, just focus on adding subtracting multiplying and dividing. I taught groups like this for my school for many years and often the kids in there couldn't read (either at all or very well) and so we had to focus as well on understanding written maths questions.

Also, there will usually be additional maths and English lessons. for example in the school I used to
Work at, students who came in with a score below 100 in maths or English did not study foreign languages but did extra maths and English in that time. They were split into readers and non-readers and the non-readers did phonics and the kids who
Could read did mostly comprehension and writing. Repetition of ks2 basically.

When it comes time to choose options for gcse students will be directed down pathways. If your child has had extra maths and English and never done a foreign language clearly they can't choose it for gcse and many schools will make them use an option for extra maths and English. They will be discouraged from choosing options that need good maths (triple science) or good English (history).

So there will be support.

But it won't be individual or 1:1.