We’re all ‘Neurodiverse’

[LuminousCrystalFox]

I regularly see the term neurodiverse used when what the person is actually referring to is neurodivergent. Saying ‘I’m neurodiverse’ or ‘My DH is neurodiverse’, isn’t particularly meaningful. I see neurodiverse used on a lot of websites as well, as an umbrella term for many neurodivergent conditions, which doesn’t help either.

Neurodiversity is simply a concept which recognises the variety of ways human brains can function. It is akin to Biodiveristy.

Adult ADHD assessments have no such barriers to referral. A questionnaire completed by a patient can be enough to get a referral. Given this, the 95% conversion rate is incredibly alarming.

I'm not saying that everyone diagnosed with ADHD doesn't have genuine issues by the way. I just feel that the conversion rate and nature of the assessment means that there are major problems with our understanding of the condition and how we diagnose it.

@Bumpitybumper I can't speak for everyone but I deliberated for a long time before asking for an asd assessment in case I wasted peoples time and I wasn't. I don't think people ask to be assessed unless they're very sure they are indeed ND.

Also re asd (no experience of adhd assessment) but it's not just about filling in a questionnaire and a quick conversation. It's way more subtle than that. Did you fill in the questionnaire, how long did it take, did you struggle to answer questions or did you have zero issues at all , these things can give some very valuable insight. You are asked for specific examples, they ask careful questions, again it's not necessarily a case of you can answer with x, it's the subtlety around how you answer, can you answer etc. In my asd assessment there was someone separate there to observe, it's difficult to fake your normal body language. Sometimes what isn't said is just as important as what is. I was also strongly encouraged to ask a parent to fill in some forms even though I didn't want too.

I'm sure many people deliberated long and hard. I'm also sure some didn't give it so much thought, saw a Tik Tok that resonated with them and sought out a referral.

A 95% conversion from referral to diagnosis is astounding. I simply don't accept almost everyone seeking a referral has such a fantastic understanding of ADHD and themselves that they are able to diagnose themselves so accurately. This is incredibly unlikely.

I don’t understand this at all. “Neurodivergent” is a correct term for the umbrella of “different thinking” conditions, eg ASD, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalcula…why is it incorrect for my to say that my DC, who does have diagnoses of ADHD and DCD, is neurodivergent? I’ve known he’s neurodivergent for years and for him especially, he doesn’t fit neatly into any of the “boxes”, so I often use “neurodivergent” where it’s relevant. If I say he is dyspraxic, people become very confused at the fact he’s been riding a bike well since age 4. Teachers don’t all buy his ADHD because “he can concentrate when he’s on task”. Yet no one disagrees with the fact that he’s “quirkier” than average, so the term neurodivergent suits him well.

@Bumpitybumper I get what you're saying but I still think you're misinformed a bit. Referral doesn't just get you a diagnosis. It may get you an assessment with a professional or two if you meet the initial criteria. That assessment may lead to further assessments with other professionals but only if you meet further criteria. Those assessments lead to either diagnosis or not, after professional analysis with all your assessment info, observations, questionnaires, etc in view. Sometimes QB testing with ADHD. This in my view is a thorough approach.

So it doesn't mean anyone who's been referred would 1) be assessed and 2) meet the criteria for the last diagnostic assessment and diagnosis. I don't agree with that because to agree with that is to agree that our medical professionals doing these assessments and analysis are mostly quacks who are not qualified after all.

It may seem that a lot are getting diagnosed recently but it's more of a backlog of those who should have been diagnosed long ago than those who shouldn't be at all.

I definitely know some people chance it but the number of those who're successful chancers tricking all these different professionals can not be that many compared to actual patients who have what they're being diagnosed with. The opposite would make our medical professionals a mere joke and I don't believe they are.

Edited: spelling.

It’s not incorrect for you to use the term neurodivergent, that is perfectly reasonable for you to do so. Maybe I missed something along the way, which you are referring to?

Are you suggesting that the stats in this document are wrong or unrepresentative of other areas? https://eput.nhs.uk/media/dzzk021d/eput-foi-22-2575.pdf . This is the NHS admitting a 95% conversion rate from referral to diagnosis. So it "is* the case that if you can get a referral then you are almost guaranteed a diagnosis.

Does that mean that the medical professionals are quacks? Not necessarily, they are working in a poorly understood area with an assessment process that isn't fit for purpose and provides false certainty. The amount of people that think there is any real science behind their ADHD diagnosis is frightening. They genuinely think their brains have been proven to be 'wired differently' , just because they filled in a few very questionable questionnaires and spoke to a 'professional' for an hour or two. The nature of ADHD means that the symptoms will resonate with many (if not most) people hence why there has been a backlash about people self diagnosing. The reality is though, with a 95% conversion rate, the chances are that if these self diagnosed people do go for a proper diagnosis then they too would almost certainly get one. The numbers would be absolutely astronomical and it would hopefully bring the many many issues associated with ADHD and how it is diagnosed to more people's attention. I honestly think this is an absolute scandal!

@Bumpitybumper That's one service though, it may not be representative of what happens elsewhere. It may also depend on what they class as 'referral' and 'assessment'. There's assessments and there's pre assessments where they decide who gets referred for a full assessment. You need to be very specific with FOIs.

I can't even get figures from my local nhs re child asd/adhd assessments as they keep dodging giving proper figures (probably because so few get diagnosed, no one seems toe be able get adhd assessments for children round here!)

I clicked on this thread thinking it would be a different discussion. You are correct OP.

I also think that with such increasing unheard of ND people particularly ADHD and to a lesser extent autism surely there comes a point where most of us are neurodivergent so it is meaningless?

I am autistic and have adhd.

Yep, just one area, but the fact that even one area has these kind of conversion stats shows the weakness in the process and assessment. It is known that conversion rates are high in other areas of the NHS and in some private clinics.

The pre assessment for adults is often another questionnaire filled in by the patient that is once again completely subjective and looked at by a GP who has extremely limited training in this area. It is hardly going to weed out many people that are looking for a referral and have at least a rudimentary idea of the symptoms of ADHD. It's no better than the online quizzes you can do online.

I dont have experience in Essex but thats not the case here. Yes the gp does some stuff, but I then had questionnaires and an hour plus assessment with someone before they decided whether to put me forward for full assessment (when there's more questionnaires and further assessments) then there's a panel to consider it all and decide whether to diagnose.

What an ignorant and stupid post.