We’re all ‘Neurodiverse’

[LuminousCrystalFox]

I regularly see the term neurodiverse used when what the person is actually referring to is neurodivergent. Saying ‘I’m neurodiverse’ or ‘My DH is neurodiverse’, isn’t particularly meaningful. I see neurodiverse used on a lot of websites as well, as an umbrella term for many neurodivergent conditions, which doesn’t help either.

Neurodiversity is simply a concept which recognises the variety of ways human brains can function. It is akin to Biodiveristy.

For an ADHD diagnosis symptoms also need to be present from childhood and questionnaires are sent to family members, old school reports are looked at etc. If someone is egging up symptoms and still tries to get a diagnosis, it’s Munchausen's syndrome

@YellowTassels I'm sure it isn't but that was my point lots of people are SELF diagnosing and taking it as gospel!

@Jimmyneutronsforehead

You know nothing at all about me or my experience of neurodiversity. Don't lecture me, I don't need it.

I don’t use diverse or divergent. It’s more of a teen clanning up term. IMO
I tend to shy away from the self diagnosed who I suppose might also find that term useful.

I wanted to reply to someone who said 'everyone's neurodiverse these days' saying 'yes, we are' 😂. I didn't bother as it would have probably gone straight over their head,

I agree that self diagnosis is problematic if that diagnosis is incorrect however with waiting time as they are for a diagnosis it's easy to see why people do it. I don't have a diagnosis but having gone through diagnosis with my son I am 100% sure I am also ASD. I don't tell anyone this as I don't have a diagnosis to back this up and don't want to be seen to be jumping on some bandwagon.

However you said this:
Also there are many adults now looking back at their childhood history and the way their life has panned out looking to get backdated diagnoses to explain themselves.

This is talking specifically about adults getting diagnosis not self-diagnosing. Apologies if I've misinterpreted but the wording sounds like you're suggesting people are seeking a diagnosis to explain how they're life has panned out like they're looking to find a reason why their life isnt as expected.

I find the best way to remember is

Neurodivergent - person with asd,adhd,ocd,dyslexia (or anything else that falls in that category's

Neurotypical- basically someone who is not neurodivergent

Neurodiverse - a group of people some of whom are Neurodivergent and some of whom are Neurotypical.

I self diagnosed first, thanks very much. It was the stimulus for the doctors actually taking it seriously.

PS. Coeliac isn't an allergy. However, I've never had to rely upon somebody else to tell me I'm allergic to something. The blisters over my hands and in some cases, the rapidly swelling airway, has always been enough of a clue for both me and medical professionals.

There’s a vast difference between saying “I think I might be autistic “ and diagnosing yourself and then telling people you “have” that condition. One is honest and the other is not.

Your point makes total sense. I'd never actually considered it before. It makes me think of people using the phrase "he/she suffers from mental health," when they're describing somebody with poor mental health. Thanks for the correction!

You can self diagnose yourself with anything. I think this is more a neurotypical trait. I hear that the NT want to be in fashion to make themselves seem more interesting or imagine there is some financial gain.

My son's ADHD diagnosis was more complex. An NHS specialist nurse observed him in the classroom for an hour. This was not sufficient even though he had an observed attention span of less than 30 seconds. Because he was also suspected ASD. It took years and multiple assessments - SALT, OT, EP and consultant paediatrician before he was diagnosed.

It's not fashionable or interesting and there is no financial gain - it's bloody hard work for DC and parents.

But for diagnosis, EHCP, DSA you need evidence which the self diagnosed don't have.

Come back when you have evidence that the self diagnosed have access to funding.

I've had many friends get diagnosed with ADHD (as adults) and they didn't do any of that stuff.

One of them doctor shopped until they found one who agreed he did have ADHD, since all the others said he didn't. It was just one questionnaire and a chat.

My whole group of friends went through a phase where they tried to get diagnosed with things, persuading each other to do the same.

I think it was because they just genuinely felt shit about their lives and wanted to find a reason for it. Now it's basically an excuse every single time, even for perfectly normal things that any human does. Put their phone down and can't find it? ADHD. If I put my phone down and can't find it because someone's moved it, it's "maybe you should get tested for ADHD, you probably have it" (which is honestly a ridiculous thing to suggest to me because everything in my house has a place, I'm never late or forgetful, and people not being organised drives me insane).

Super easy to get diagnosed with anxiety and depression as well. They should bring in brain scans and blood tests like they do in the US to cut down all the fraud.

@sunseaandsoundingoff let's suppose that your friends paid for a dodgy diagnosis. And really they should have gone to a reputable provider with NHS right to choose. Who would have required evidence. What did they achieve? An excuse with friends? Reasonable adjustment from their employer? Meds? Disability benefits? What was the pay off from the scam perpetrated by your 'friends' who faked symptoms?

You are correct, I don't know anything about your experience with neurodivergence.

I can only assume that based on the fact you say that every one is neurodivergent that you don't understand neurodivergence because that is exactly what somebody who doesn't understand neurodivergence would say, or someone who is being purposefully antagonistic.

Your experience of neurodivergence does not suddenly make the fact that not everyone is neurodivergent less factual.

To be divergent you must diverge from the norm, but if there are no people who are totally typical then everyone diverges in some way? I think that’s what pp meant anyway.

It covers numerous "conditions". It doesn't explain much at all! Why do you ever need to say "ND" but not autism or ADHD?

You can't be ASD... You can be autistic, or have autism, or autism spectrum condition if you feel the need to say that, lol.

You know nothing at all about me or my experience of neurodiversity. Don't lecture me, I don't need it.

It's clear from this thread that you know next to nothing about ND or are being deliberately offensive.

Yes exactly.

Another one is 'my child is asd or adhd' rather than 'my child has asd or adhd or my child is autistic'. You can't be a disorder so you can't be Autism Spectrum Disorder or Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. You can have one.

I suppose there's no specific word for those with ADHD like there is for autism like Autistic/Autist. Some say 'an ADHD-er'.

These are also things I've given up on correcting because it's everywhere now.

It is not essential for an ADHD diagnosis to look at old school reports or for family members to complete questionnaires. It can be completed almost entirely on self assessment and recollection.This is for an NHS diagnosis btw, not just private clinics.

I'm not saying people are necessarily egging up symptoms but it is well known that it is extremely unreliable to rely on self assessment and personal recall in scientific studies because people are unbelievably unreliable at accurately assessing themselves and their own behaviours. They aren't trying to bias the study, yet inevitably this happens. It is nothing to do with Munchausen's Syndrome, but more to do with a condition being identified that is associated with traits that are highly prevalent in the general population. You obviously can't diagnose everyone with ADHD so arbitrary thresholds are set and a very unreliable diagnosis process is used that relies on a high level of subjectivity. It is obviously always going to be hugely controversial to pretend that such a process is scientific enough to accurately determine if someone is 'NT' or 'ND'. This is especially true as we literally have no way currently (brain scan, blood test etc) to definitively check the accuracy of the assessments.

But you can't just reel off a list of traits and get a diagnosis. For example, you can't just say you're hyperactive and attentive and that is enough. You need to specifically explain the things you do/did, how things affect you and how you were as a kid. Then the medical professionals will analyse the information you've given as well as their observation and decide if they believe it's likely you have the disorder/condition. They're not relying on your own analysis of how you were but theirs. They decide if those things you've said can be said to be in the relevant categories and impact you enough to warrant being called a disorder. You're not just telling them you are inattentive therefore you have the disorder and bam they agree or disagree. At least, this is for the thorough and efficient process. I know there are less efficient and thorough ones.

If someone is then making up stories and information to fit the traits they think they have so they can trick the professionals to get a diagnosis, then that is Munchausen or simply fraud or a mental illness. I agree this happens though.

If we're being very skeptical of the NHS diagnoses, then we're essentially saying that all those medical professionals and consultants don't really know what they're analysing, observing and concluding... It may as well be a vocation or hobby to be an EP, OT, etc.

It shouldn't be just one person needed to make a diagnosis of these conditions since there are no objective tests.

A lot of scientific theories and research that people defend and work with are carried out this way too until more is known.

Regarding self diagnosis, I somehow am sceptical that many NT people spend much time wondering if they have ASD. It’s still rather stigmatised and it’s certainly not something I go around advertising unless necessary. Willing to be corrected on this.

I am highly sceptical about the assessment process for ADHD. I don't think the assessments are anywhere robust enough and I think they are based on very incomplete and poorly understood science. They are completely open to intentional and unintentional manipulation and are nowhere near as accurate as you seem to think they are. The NHS process has a 95% conversion rate from referral to diagnosis. Are we really supposed to just accept that virtually everyone that suspects that they have ADHD actually has it? I literally can't think of a condition where lay people with no medical qualifications or expertise can request a referral and have this level of certainty that they will be diagnosed with the condition they think they have!

eput.nhs.uk/media/dzzk021d/eput-foi-22-2575.pdf

I'm sorry but I will never be convinced that this assessment and the people conducting it are in a position to state that someone is definitively ND and fundamentally different than the rest of us

Bumpity, in order for NHS clinicians to diagnose ASC in a child or young person, a referral needs to pass a threshold assessment prior to entry on the waiting list. There needs to be evidence of a significant cluster of traits presenting consistently in a minimum of two different settings (so reports from professionals at school or education provider are almost always expected, assuming home is the primary setting). The assessment process itself consists of several meetings with teams of clinicians who take a history and subsequently perform the clinical assessments comprising of observations, interviews and tests. It's a lengthy process which in many areas takes several years from initial referral to the commencement of the assessment process.

There is a weird gate-keeping vibe around adult assessment and diagnosis, often coupled with a misconception around a perceived increase in the prevalence of ASC and ADHD, suggesting it's somehow 'over-diagnosed'. This is such a shame as there were likely always many undiagnosed children and young people with neurodivergent conditions who were simply marginalised in education and never given the support and accommodations to achieve their full potential. The term 'bandwagon' feels really gross in this context.

Not many decades ago, DD1 would either have been in some kind of borstal, suffering with an ED, massively self-medicating, self-harming or dead, were it not for the care she has been afforded due to her diagnosis which has allowed her to access support and thrive in her own way. When I did my teacher training in the 90s, autism was still widely considered to only impact males, to present universally as avoidance of eye-contact and come either with sauvant 'super powers' or nappies, not much in between. I think back to old pupils who really struggled and were thought to be either 'slow' or 'naughty' or otherwise problematic, who would very likely have met the diagnostic thresholds for autism, and I really hope they're OK.