Super yacht sinking - did the crew bravely survive or did they abandon their the passengers

[mids2019]

So....most of the crew survived this tragedy but the passengers died. Do you think it will emerge the crew should have e done more to alrt the passengers and indeed put their lives in danger to attempt a rescue? Maybe it was all just too fast?

I just think there seems silence from the crew at moment despite being survivors of a sinking vessel who have a story to tell. Are lawyers advising they stay quiet on this?

Is it known if the engines were turned on at any point?

Thank you.
It's the first time I've read that the yacht broke anchor.

I'm wondering where the Corriere that info. - from the manufacturer (?)

i am not sure (and not sure how much credence to give an anonymous “source” from that paper) - and I don’t know if the coastguards that the Indie mention are senior bods or part time summer newbies, say.

But I thought it worth posting some links to show that there’s not necessarily a consensus re the weather forecasts or the automated information system data (“black box” - but I don’t think it’s like an airplane black box recording cockpit conversations)

I got the impression from some previous postings that maritime AIS was roughly analogous to aircraft ADS… the type of datalink system that feeds the tracking sites. In which case some numbers being quoted in that article might perhaps, depending on data source, need a plus/minus due to GPS not being perfectly accurate.

Somebody has mentioned at some point a Voyage Log or logger (?) and I got the impression that might be in some way is equivalent to an aircraft crash protected flight data recorder (FWIW aircraft voice recorders are yet another separate unit).

Thanks @notimagain for additional info

I can’t depend on the weather report even for the purpose of putting laundry outside to dry. 🤷🏻‍♀️ They help, but they aren’t definitive. Given other boats in the area stayed moored and came through it ok, and given there are sightings of a water spout, I don’t think you can definitively conclude they necessarily made huge errors in terms of weather predictions. But as so many have said, the investigation will likely take all this into account far better than gossiping will.

Obviously I'm speculating and I'm not a yachtsman.

Assume the 16mins started when the anchor began to drag. I guess a mildly dragging anchor is something a crew are drilled to manage, like moderate turbulence on an airliner.

Crew are doing that when, ten or more minutes in, all hell breaks loose with a mini typhoon or microburst. We had something like that here, inland in the UK, a couple of years ago. Trees and fences down and garden furniture redistributed. I thought our front bedroom window was going to detach from its fixings.

Inside 3 minutes it was gone and the sun was out.

Something like that, on water, doesn't bear thinking about.

No one knows except the survivors and they can't talk about it

It may be possible to know from boat logs when the wreck is recovered as well.

The captain has been questioned by investigators in 2-3 sessions so I assume he has gone through his actions in those, but it’s not public knowledge.

I've been thinking about the incredulity my mention of the storm warning being noted by sailors in other countries received. What, in France?? Yes, in France. Are you sure it was a forecast for the same storm for Croatia??? Yes, Croatia.

Perhaps it comes from living in such a small place that one can't comprehend distances. Where I grew up (roughly 30 times the size of the UK) a severe weather warning will often apply for communities 500-1000k-plus apart.

In any case, there was a storm warning, and the locals were well aware of it. The local fishermen were aware of it and stayed in port. The captain who rescued the survivors from the liferaft mentions it.

Börner was anchored with his ship, Sir Robert Baden Powell, at Porticello on Monday. “The weather forecast included thunderstorms and that can sometimes be strange in the Mediterranean,” he told the regional broadcaster. He and his crew got up early that morning. “We were somewhat prepared for it.”

nltimes.nl/2024/08/21/dutch-sea-captain-done-rescuing-15-sicily

Out of interest after lots of searching I’ve found this maritime specific site. This current forecast shows the sort of format I was asking about yesterday…

https://wwmiws.wmo.int/index.php/metareas/display/bulletin/FQMQ54_LFPW/20240827185622913773

Thanks @notimagain for linking sources.

It is acknowledged that there was a storm warning, no one has said there wasn’t.

In the reports I quoted, the local coastguard indicated it wasn’t unreasonable to be at anchor near to shore given the warnings.

The link is appreciated. It is the first time I have seen mention of four serious injuries - before only AB was mentioned. The injuries may also be a factor in the OP’s original (and objectionable) question about abandonment.

It is interesting that the captain of the BP seems to indicate a waterspout appeared, but the investigator press conference showed the more recent thinking is a downburst.

It is acknowledged that there was a storm warning, no one has said there wasn’t.

I was referring to this comment I made: People from as far as 1000k away have reported they got the weather warning.

This was something I'd read on other forums, specifically about sailing. (I would think it would be inappropriate to link to personal comments on such threads.):

In response I got such comments, some incredulous, and some plain snide:

"do you mean a thousand kilometres? Or a thousand metres? Because storm warnings 1000km away aren’t that relevant - that’s the south coast of France"

"And did they all batten down the hatches and get everyone out of bed?"

"Nobody was out within a 1000 km radius?"

"Isn’t it possible that Croatia had a storm and that it wasn’t the same storm?"

In the reports I quoted, the local coastguard indicated it wasn’t unreasonable to be at anchor near to shore given the warnings.

I agree, it is perfectly possibly to be at anchor and also simultaneously prepared for incoming stormfronts.

I give up and will go back to leaving you alone.

Have a nice day.

Oh, I see. You don't actually want clarity, just the opportunity to hector people.

I think TBH part of the problem is if the phrase “storm warning” is going to be dropped into the debate “storm” needs to be defined, since it gets used fairly loosely in the media to describe anything from a deep depression through to the odd gentle thunderstorm through to the really big stuff…

Hopefully one of the things the investigating team will look at is the actual forecast for the night (and it looks like max winds and max wave height, with caveats, are in those forecasts) and considering whether the captain’s actions in the hours before the event were sensible given the numbers in the forecast, maybe it will also look at how good the forecast actually was.

I think you should check your dictionary @rosesyrup if you think questions equal hectoring.

Suggest we leave each other alone going forward, since we have such different interpretations of the English language.

It sounds like you grew up somewhere with very low resolution weather forecasts, hence your inability to comprehend the more localised information we are used to.

I agree, it is perfectly possibly to be at anchor and also simultaneously prepared for incoming stormfronts

My questions were around whether (and at what point) the captain should have gathered the passengers.

Were the expected conditions reasonable to allow passengers to sleep in their cabins through.

There is talk of the anchor breaking - at which point you mentioned they should have been gathered - but the only source I've seen for that was provided by another poster and it's an Italian newspaper quoting a source they don't specify/name.
The manufacturer, I think, said they were dragging anchor for a certain amount of time but some posters have said that wouldn't be considered an emergency. And we don't know (if it definitely broke) how long it broke before the sinking.

There are so many other things that are not known or clear yet.

Everyone’s heard of the shipping forecast right?! (Or maybe not I suppose – if you don’t listen to R4 and don’t sail I guess why would you 🤷🏻)

I do not sail, but I’m aware that there’s not one blanket weather forecast for the entire med (not to mention the Channel and Atlantic coast).

Can understand this scale applying to something like a typhoon or hurricane warning however.

From looking at the description of the boat's structure and systems by one of its ex-captains the likely culprit is air vents (that would have been open with generators running and the engine off) and if open would have flooded if the boat heeled to only a 40-45 angle, whereas with them closed the boat could right itself from 75-90 degrees depending on whether the keel was retracted. Water coming in through the vents would flood the cabins and/ or engine room - which would explain the stern sinking first, and the blackout just beforehand.

The crew might not have realised how severe the storm was until it was too late: once the vents were flooded there would have been little they could do. However, it appears other boats nearby had started their engines to gain more control and closed all hatches and openings in time, like the Sir Robert BP which was also dragging anchor for some time before the Bayesian sunk, and subsequently rescued the survivors.

According to the "black box" data the anchor broke 6 minutes before the boat was completely submerged. It started taking on water once the anchor has broken.

3:50 boat "shaking dangerously" in the severe storm
3:59 boat's anchor gave way and the boat was then dragged 358m through the water
4:00 boat was taking on water
4:05 boat completely submerged

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/black-box-recovered-superyacht-wreckage-33531920

I guess what happened in those first 9 minutes and whether the crew followed the very specific bespoke instructions for operating this boat (given its design) will be crucial. If the boat was "shaking dangerously" then presumably it would have been normal procedure to rouse the passengers and gather them at the safe point (presumably the living room at deck level?), start the engine and ensure all watertight openings were closed. For some reason at least some of those things didn't happen.

Pick of Pickyville here again:

”as the boat’s black-box data has been analysed by police probing the disaster. The information recovered from the Bayesian's Automatic Identification System (AIS) breaks down exactly how it sank in a painful quarter-of-an-hour timeline.”

If the AIS being referred to there is the AIS system as described elsewhere it possible the data has been recovered from servers on shore, rather than a box on board….any one heard if any data recorders have been recovered?

Also given how accurate GPS and the other satnav system can/cannot be I’m not sure I’d be hanging my hat too much on the precision of the 358 metre figure…”about 360” might be a better wording

https://shipping.nato.int/nsc/operations/news/2021/ais-automatic-identification-system-overview