Super yacht sinking - did the crew bravely survive or did they abandon their the passengers

[mids2019]

So....most of the crew survived this tragedy but the passengers died. Do you think it will emerge the crew should have e done more to alrt the passengers and indeed put their lives in danger to attempt a rescue? Maybe it was all just too fast?

I just think there seems silence from the crew at moment despite being survivors of a sinking vessel who have a story to tell. Are lawyers advising they stay quiet on this?

There is an interesting documentary about the Costa Concordia. It's on Amazon Prime. If you don’t have Amazon Prime I believe you can sign up for a 30 day free trial.
www.amazon.co.uk/Terror-at-Sea-Sinking-Concordia/dp/B09274DGFZ

Maybe, there’s some evidence from other industries that sometimes even trained professionals who were eyewitnesses to an event will disagree or get it wrong - there’s at least one example with regard to an accident in the paper I provided a link to where two “expert eyewitnesses” got it wrong.

I’ve even seen comment that those with some specialist knowledge might not be the best eye witness because they have some bias due to expectation/their experience and may start to interpret what they saw, whereas a complete amateur doesn’t know the norm so simply describes what they remember.

In the case of the yacht hopefully there’ll be evidence on CCTV or maybe some devices that can give an objective idea of timescales…

The pictures taken before the sinking show it all lit up, the power for this and the A/C comes from generators so this in no way points to a problem with the engines. I suspect the stories of open hatches are actually incorrect, it’s possible there was an A/C problem of course.

As with aviation incidents it’s unlikely to come down to a single cause, there’s undoubtedly a catalogue of small failures from design to systems and human error which when combined with the freak weather event sunk her. Remove any of those failures and she’d have survived.

Very strange that lynch’s partner in the recent trial also died after being hit by a car whilst jogging

Perhaps but this isn't a complex event. One minute the yacht is visible and the next it's underwater. Finis. There isn't much to analyze.

Two minutes from when though? Two minutes from when he first noticed it was in trouble and starting to sink?

We have no idea how long it took between the crew realising they were in trouble and it sinking. It clearly sank unusually quickly, and even experienced sailors in the vicinity were taken by surprised at the speed of its disappearance.

Have you seen the CCTV footage that is on YouTube?

Again, maybe..but was it one minute of two minutes - makes all the difference to survival so accurate timescale might be important..

We’ve already seeing disagreements about whether hatches/and other openings were secure or not…so were they?

There’s a reason why in some industries accident investigators are very cautious about using eyewitnesses and rely very heavily on recorded data.

Assuming you have time and are able to get to them.

@BettyBardMacDonald can you post a link to the cctv footage?

Yeah but it's not like that in real life as we know from the inquiry into the sinking of the Estonia in September 1994 where around 900 people died (mostly Swedes and Estonians).

The radar imaging shows the actual time the ship/boat disappears under the surface but many boats are not escapable for that length of time. Boats do not usually take on water and sink horizontally. Usually water tips the boat sideways, and causes listing.

The Estonia disaster showed that once the boat lists and takes on water (60 to 90 degrees in the case of Estonia) it is almost impossible to escape. There are no longer flat floors to walk along. The stairwells become waterfalls in the wrong direction and water pours through the ceilings. Furniture and furnishings get thrown or float to block or impede exits. Windows and portholes can implode in the pressure and external doors and covers can be ripped off. Evacuation may be in pitch black if the power fails or there is the danger of people being electrocuted from electrical items in the water.

The Estonia disaster showed that only those on the upper decks had any chance of escaping.

I caused a smoke alarm to go off in a hotel a few weeks ago. After a couple of minutes of the smoke alarm the fire alarms went off. Ive never heard a noise like it. It was bedlam. My apartment was on the ground floor of the hotel, serviced apartments actually, and I was out very quickly in my nightie and I’ll never forget the sight of people coming out even 10 minutes after all hell let loose dressed for the day and some of them even carrying their belongings. When it was known that it had been a false alarm (id just very badly burned something in a microwave) I’ve no idea why 90% of people on the pavement went back to their rooms given they were dressed for the day including hats and gloves and they could easily have started their sightseeing there and then. I even said to the Manager - why are they going back to their rooms, they’re all up and dressed now.

It's all over YouTube.

CCTV footage:

I can see the cctv camera being engulfed by the storm but not the boat. The light at the top of the mast is visible in the same spot throughout the footage.

If it had been like that for 16 minutes someone would have managed a mayday. The fact there was no mayday call suggests this happened very fast

Agreed though re moving on a boat that listing heavily and being thrown around.

And also super yachts aren't really set up for storms - lots of loose furniture etc. I am more used to racing yachts where everything is pinned down or stowed and minimalist !

None of the CCTV footage shows the point of the collapse, out of respect.

@blueshoes that I can understand but that cctv footage is all over YouTube showing nothing out of the ordinary awash with talking heads getting their 15 minutes in. Nothing respectful about any of it.

Here's some vivid and horrible food for thought from a reddit thread on a sailing forum. It's pretty understandable why some didn't escape. Also apparently even if they did make it out of their cabins and crawl up the upside-down staircase they still would have emerged into the enclosed salon, not the open deck, or what used to be the above-waterline deck. I just hope it was quick for them.

Next time you’re in bed imagine waking up in almost pitch black as the room rotates 90 degrees and a wall of seawater rushing in. Disoriented and shocked from waking to yelling and screams. You don’t know up from down. It’s the stuff of nightmares. Your mattress is on top of you.

And you are in a boat so big you might as well be in the basement of a small apartment building, pitch black and the water is full of all the debris that wasn’t bolted down.

We’ve already seeing disagreements about whether hatches/and other openings were secure or not…so were they?

As @TheCountessofFitzdotterel says - it hasn’t been definitely stated either way.

I doubt it would be the divers so far who would say - they were down there in the deep darkness, risking their lives and their health, to recover the bodies. They had 10 minutes at a time at the wreck and one job to do.

In time, the wreck will be raised. Before this happens, there may be robot surveillance reports. But we don’t know right now.

Be completely honest. If you were (probably not very well paid) crew in those circumstances, would you risk your life for strangers? I wouldn’t.

They’ve been through something dreadful and traumatic. They certainly don’t need accusations from strangers on the internet.

Kind of a tangent but: given the risks to the rescue divers, I wonder if we should rethink the impulse to retrieve the bodies from horrid events like this.

What's the point, once it's ascertained that there were no survivors? I would hate for somene to risk her or his life to dive underwater to hoist my corpse out of a dangerous location. Might as well let the sea life take care of it and contribute my cells as food for other organisms.

I found this to be very interesting and informative, obviously nothing is confirmed yet, no doubt there will be many comments that will suggest theories, but there will be some expertise too. Such a tragic turn if events and for want of a less used word there was were some almost 'unprecedented' weather conditions taking place in a very localised area

BettyBardMacDonald · Today 19:37
Kind of a tangent but: given the risks to the rescue divers, I wonder if we should rethink the impulse to retrieve the bodies from horrid events like this.
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What's the point, once it's ascertained that there were no survivors? I would hate for somene to risk her or his life to dive underwater to hoist my corpse out of a dangerous location. Might as well let the sea life take care of it and contribute my cells as food for other organisms”

I get this. I wouldn’t want it either. I also find it really uncomfortable when old ships are raised or divers go down and bring up artefacts. To my mind, it’s akin to grave robbing. Feel the same way about Egyptian tombs/mummies, ancient burial sites worldwide. I really hope that the titanic is never brought up. It’s a graveyard and should be treated accordingly.

Though in this current case I guess if the families are desperate and the divers willing to take the risk, it’s for them to negotiate. I suppose I may feel the same way, were it one of our children.

The families will want it. Unless the bodies were brought to the surface and identified, there is no closure for them. It is for the living, not the dead.

There is precedent for leaving the bodies where it is too dangerous to retrieve them. The path to the Everest summit is littered with the dead bodies of those who did not make it up or down.

I am guessing the boat will be lifted. The insurers will pay for it so that they can apportion liability. Many of the victims are very well off and their estates will sue. This will be tied up in litigation for years.