Wwyd, 17yo verbally abusing younger siblings on a regular basis

[70sPubCarpet]

17yo ds has extremely demand avoidant asd.

He has had years and years of extremely violent meltdowns, which have certainly traumatised his younger siblings.

He has had 3 self harm events which required emergency services assistance.

His father, who we lived with until he was 9, was occasionally violent towards ds and me, and verbally abusive a lot.

We have had a lot of support over the years, he has been offered so many interventions - all of which have failed because he will not engage with them, or he engages for a short time and then disengages and that is it for him.

Ds has been violent towards me and his younger siblings in the past. He is much bigger and stronger than me now.

In the past year or so he has become simultaneously less violent but increasingly verbally abusive. Towards me and his siblings. He regularly calls me and dd bitch, bitch whore and other misogynistic terms.

He calls his brothers retards, cunts, tells them to kill themselves, and other stuff that is just vile.

The siblings are afraid of him because of the previous violence, and frankly so am I. Nothing I can say or do makes any difference and he does not respect me in any way.

I feel like I escaped one dv situation and have ended up in another. I tried so hard, over the years, knowing what he's been through and the mental health and ND struggles he is dealing with, but I've clearly failed and I feel out of options.

He is supposed to start a supported course in September, which I have been hoping will be the making of him.

But we are away on holiday right now, and he's being so unbelievably awful towards his siblings, I just feel like I cannot put them through this any more.

I have said to ds1 tonight that I will not stand for this behaviour any more, and if he will not stop it he can't live at home any more.

I would obviously feel awful if I gave up on him and made him move out. I don't even know where he would/could go.

I don't know how to do the right thing for all of my children, because it seems like their best interests lie in opposite directions.

Any words of advice would be welcome right now.

And at home he's physically hurting his siblings and they are having to live with a violent abuser with a temper. So maybe not dad's but elsewhere with support.

@70sPubCarpet

My friend had similar issues with her eldest and it was hell for her.

Now not to put you off as this isn't always the case but when she asked SS for help she was assigned a god awful SW who wanted to put her younger children into care as he said they were in danger from their older brother;he shouldn't have done that and was subsequently removed and eventually sacked when my friend lodged a formal grievance against him.

The next SW was brilliant and her son was move into a supported living facility (he was also 17).

We love our children but sometimes loving them isn't enough and we have to make really hard decisions.

Making your other children's home a safe happy place by giving your eldest his own space might be the best option for everyone

There have been some good ideas on here OP, I hope this thread has helped you.
I also grew up with an abusive and frightening sibling. I did have a lock on my door to keep him out of my room. I also had to move out for a while to escape him.
I really hated being at home and I did blame my parents and him and I generally hated my childhood. I really sympathise with your younger children.
I have worked with some teenagers over the years who have displayed extreme behaviours like your oldest son, there isn't always a reason, a mental health professional once told me that everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of violence and some children are therefore logically like your son on the extreme and bad end as it were.
Also the cahms staff I work with keep saying boundaries are very important for young people with semh issues, so please do enforce them. He may or may not forgive you but if you don't stick to the sensible and safe boundaries the alternative is dangerous and damaging. And another thing I've noticed is that usually teenagers behave in a way that they want to, he is choosing his behaviour he isn't being controlled by anyone else.

Rather than issuing ultimatums - which hardly ever succeed, you could look at working with your DS to plan the next stage in his life, including finding somewhere for him to live independently.

She has! The ultimatium has come after years of trying to get him to engage and plan.

The op strikes me as someone who has tried everything and has carries an underserved burden of guilt.

But I agree with you regarding the younger ones. They need to come first now.

That's an awful thing to say.

Why would be leave a vulnerable teenager with a temper with a known violent abuser who's the cause of a lot of trauma?

He'd be in danger of being physically hurt.

Why would you leave vunerable younger children with a known violent abuser who's the cause of a lot if trauma?

Unfortunately in this senario the teenager is also an abuser. She needs to break the cycle for the younger ones.

Horrible choice but he has had years.

And who knows, it may well be the makings of him.

I think you're in a really difficult position but you have already been making a choice between your older and younger children and your older one has won every time. He is the abuser and he is also the oldest. You are teaching your children to tolerate living in an abusive household. He doesn't need to be banished from the family if that's not what you want but he does need to live elsewhere.

An extremely difficult situation. I hope you find a solution, I wish you the best xxx

I'd get social services involved. And if there's no sufficient interventions I'd start looking at respite or supported living. Sorry if I missed this but is he in education still?

He has finished school and is due to start a supported fe course in sept local to where we live

Your son has had years to come to terms with his dad's violence. He first have to deal with it or react to it in the way he has - you say yourself he's coughing to do that.

I think he needs to move out. Or else the younger dc will be irreparably damaged too. They don't deserve to live with an abuser - and that's what your son is.

A very difficult situation. I wish you all the best.

He's gone off this his dads, who has blamed me entirely because 'I went to the police' about his most recent abusive incident. This is the reason why ds is abusing his siblings. (Obv it's not)

I wouldn't blame you if you asked for a residential place for him for the sake of your other children. Reach out to social services and be honest about how he is abusing them. There must be something they can do Worst case scenario you can keep calling the police until someone helps you.

It’s really really hard. My DS was like this- still is a bit. He has Adhd and demand avoidance. Things that have helped us included not going on holiday - it was actually much harder when away, Not imposing many rules - seems unpopular but OMG you can’t live in a battle zone. Allowing him to eat on his own. And actually the teenage support from the county council did help a bit. Also calling the police when things got out of hand. He’s 20 now and much less difficult - hormones play a part here. He also found himself an apprenticeship after I had left him on his own and stopped trying to help. Also for you maybe CBT - it’s so hard to get through the guilt and the judgement. Is there an ASD group in your area? they helped me a lot when I was beside myself! Sorry you have this. Agree- if it’s a partner you leave them but how do you deal with a child- much harder. You have to just keep trying to invoke any possible support. Things not perfect here but very much better.

PS also an abusive ex is not helpful. Yes of course you are going to call the police - what else are you going to do??

Completely wild. He’s the problem so he needs to go. Not bullying, assaulting and intimidating your younger siblings isn’t a contentious overly demanding house rule. It’s not all about him. So far you have picked him and he’s allowed to rule the roost. It’s like when a woman picks her partner over her children, you are lucky the younger ones aren’t being taken into care

Ignore the ex. He’s hardly in a position to comment on violence and abuse

Does your LA run Non Violent Resistance Courses? Might be worth a punt. Works on everything from building up your network of people who are aware of what is going on and can help, to help you prioritise which behaviours you are going to work on and communicating what is and isn’t acceptable to DS.

What screams at me from your post is how much you have been through and how much you have done for your DC. You have not failed them. Some things just cannot be sorted, especially by one person. I think it’s maybe not in either your DS1’s or your or your other children’s interests for DS1 to stay at home. This is not because you have failed. It just is. DS probably is at an age where he wants to spread his wings more but struggles to do so because of his needs. Life with two younger siblings is also probably not easy. Throw in there trauma and a lack of male role models and it’s no wonder he’s struggling.

His course is probably starting soon, but don’t let that out you off. Let him continue starting it, but put all your effort into getting his EHCP amended so that he either goes to a residential college or embarks in an independent living course in a local independent living centre alongside his college course. You will need evidence that this is required. Get social care assessments done. Speak to NAS, speak to whichever experts you can to work out who you need to assess him and write a report to get what he needs. If the LA don’t agree appeal. Go to tribunal.

That is entirely from his perspective. I imagine there are avenues you could go down in relation to your other children, but the outcome for DS1 may not be as good. You are not failing DS1 by sending him to a specialist residential college. I have a younger demand avoidant child and I fully expect that by his late teens he will need to leave the family home. He has nowhere near the trauma your DS has and no younger siblings, but I’m fairly sure I won’t be able to manage him.

So DS sees himself as the victim who should be allowed to physically and verbally abuse his siblings? And he thinks he punishing you by leaving it seems?!

No - it's his dad who thinks ds behaviour is a result of me going to police about his (the dads) most recent abusive incident which was aimed at me in front of the dc.

Ds does not think he is punishing me by going to dads, pretty much the opposite.

At least you and your other kids will get a break now. His Dad sounds awful, but it sounds like your son will be physically safe there - your ex will want to keep him onside, so you can be the villan of it all.

You need to protect yourself, and your younger kids, so I think you should try to accept that he's no longer living with you.

If he wants to move home again, you can insist on good behaviour, or maybe take it that he's left and isn't coming back, but that you're happy for him to visit, as long as he's not abusive.

And please stop blaming yourself - you had an awful abusive husband, who you left, and you're not responsible for your sons ASD.

More awful than your younger children living in fear of their abusive sibling? Please prioritise them, they are victims and are already significantly traumatised.

I think you should change the locks and not let him return if he tries to.
I’m sure living with his father isn’t a perfect arrangement, and not what you want for him, but it might be the best you can do for now.
At least your younger children are freed from him. I think you will be surprised by the extent of their relief.
And you’re entitled to live in peace as well. You matter too.

I've had some really long talks irl with people who know us all, and have done for years, who love my son dearly, and I have come to the conclusion that I should not have him back in the house.

I feel utterly hideous about it because he went off to his dads and he said to me 'you won't let me come home if I go' and I said I would if he changed his behaviour completely, but I've come to see that this isn't enough anymore. Even if he does change it, just enough, for a while, it doesn't undo the harm that has already been done and I have realised that we are all walking on eggshells around ds, which is no way to live.

I'm trying to come to terms with this in my own head because I know I will need to be incredibly strong because I will be bombarded with reproaches, abuse and arguments to change my mind from both ds and his father.

I think you’re doing the right thing for yourself and your younger children. I think you’re going to see them thrive.

As for your oldest ds, maybe there isn’t any right thing. There isn’t always a perfect solution, only a less-worse compromise. It isn’t your fault; you can’t do magic.

Stay strong. Don’t listen to their abuse. Hang up the phone. Lock the door and call the police if you have to.
Refuse to be bullied. You have rights. You matter.