Wwyd, 17yo verbally abusing younger siblings on a regular basis

[70sPubCarpet]

17yo ds has extremely demand avoidant asd.

He has had years and years of extremely violent meltdowns, which have certainly traumatised his younger siblings.

He has had 3 self harm events which required emergency services assistance.

His father, who we lived with until he was 9, was occasionally violent towards ds and me, and verbally abusive a lot.

We have had a lot of support over the years, he has been offered so many interventions - all of which have failed because he will not engage with them, or he engages for a short time and then disengages and that is it for him.

Ds has been violent towards me and his younger siblings in the past. He is much bigger and stronger than me now.

In the past year or so he has become simultaneously less violent but increasingly verbally abusive. Towards me and his siblings. He regularly calls me and dd bitch, bitch whore and other misogynistic terms.

He calls his brothers retards, cunts, tells them to kill themselves, and other stuff that is just vile.

The siblings are afraid of him because of the previous violence, and frankly so am I. Nothing I can say or do makes any difference and he does not respect me in any way.

I feel like I escaped one dv situation and have ended up in another. I tried so hard, over the years, knowing what he's been through and the mental health and ND struggles he is dealing with, but I've clearly failed and I feel out of options.

He is supposed to start a supported course in September, which I have been hoping will be the making of him.

But we are away on holiday right now, and he's being so unbelievably awful towards his siblings, I just feel like I cannot put them through this any more.

I have said to ds1 tonight that I will not stand for this behaviour any more, and if he will not stop it he can't live at home any more.

I would obviously feel awful if I gave up on him and made him move out. I don't even know where he would/could go.

I don't know how to do the right thing for all of my children, because it seems like their best interests lie in opposite directions.

Any words of advice would be welcome right now.

If you can't force him to leave against his will, how are you going to follow through on telling him he can't live at home if he continues?

Does he have an EHCP? If not, it sounds like he needs one so you could look at residential SEMH college options for 18-25.

What sounds more awful: a tough time for a week or so while he gets accustomed to living at his dad's (but with peace at home for you and your other children) or him potentially living with and abusing you into your old age and none of your other children being in contact with you because you didn't protect them from their abuser?

You can drop him off at his dad’s though. It’s tough luck if he doesn’t want to live there.

Why should his desires trump the feeling of safety that should be a given for your other kids

He needs to leave. You'd be letting your other children down by enabling him to stay. I'd start to explore the options already outlined. At some point he needs to take responsibility for his actions.

Wow. I understand you are his mum, but your poor other kids. I couldn't live like this and I wonder why you can and assume that your other kids can.

Do you feel that you deserve to live like this for some reason?

Am so sorry but agree with this, it's almost like you're so focused on trying to right what went wrong for home nearly a decade ago- you're not seeing the current abuse towards your other dc.

I grew up in a home marked by verbal, emotional and physical abuse and my heart breaks for your other children. There are no easy solutions in this situation, but they 100% do not deserve to live like this. If that means asking your DS to leave, then ask him to leave. You wouldn't tolerate a grown male treating them like this, whatever diagnosis or trauma might be in play, in any other circumstances. Why tolerate it from him? Letting him go on living with you is signing them up for more years of abuse.

I guess TBH I'm also wary of ASD being cited as a get out of jail free card for male violence, at any age but especially into adulthood. I know saying this is like poking a hornet's nest on MN, but there you go.

I'm not saying I won't follow through on it, but I will have to enlist help to make him leave if he won't. I'd rather avoid that. But I feel like I can't make the right decision for all of my children at the moment.

So I have to choose. And yes, the younger ones need protecting. That is why I started this thread,

He does have an ehcp, and he also gets PIP, which may potentially open some doors for supported options. I don't know.

I do know he won't want to go, and if I do make him he will probably never forgive me.

But you're not banishing him from the family, just saying he can't be abusive or he can change his behaviour.
I'd be more worried yout younger dc as pp have said go nc in the future if he remains and continues the abuse.

Can you forgive him for abusing his younger siblings?
The youngest child has to win here because they have no choice. He is almost 18 and there for alternate living arrangements are open to him. He may not like it, he may never forgive you but unfortunately that's the way it is. Or, he sees sense, sees that how he is treating you all is not ok and learns how to maintain boundaries as you have shown him.

This is really tough for you.

There's a great group on FB about demand avoidance, violence, family support that I'd suggest you join.

It's called Newbold Hope - family support group.

I do know he won't want to go, and if I do make him he will probably never forgive me.

Your younger children may never forgive you if you don't.

Yes, I know this. That's why I have started the thread. I told ds last night that I wouldn't stand for it any more, and I've told him again today. I know it will take a little while to sink in. I have also told his siblings the same. So something now must change, be it his behaviour or our living arrangements. I will keep reiterating for the rest of our holiday, and next week when we are back home and he is in his familiar space again I will assess how things are and make a decision.

I can do this. But it doesn't make it feel any better.

This is an almost adult male who is berating, intimidating, provocting, and demeaning everyone in the household all day every day.

He controls their life experience in it's totality. Every single decision they make in their lives will be centered around him - how he will react, what he will do, how to avoid "making" him react.

It is really not good enough to expect them to baracde themselves into a room in the house. In any case that will only protect them pysically, and only for the period of time they are in the room.

It is also not good enough to get that family to learn self defense in order to potect themselves in their own home. The follow up to that logic is "well, if you had done X then Y would not have happened". In other words - the fault is somehow theirs.

This chap has had many offers of help over years. For what ever reason he cannot or will do it. To continue with this situation is unconscionable for the younger children.

Tough love is needed now op. On your return home he goes to live with his father/hostel/foster/ something.

I know you love him and it will break your heart but you have to take action,

Hard headed, firm, cruel to be kind ACTION.

The greater good needs to be factored now.

It's horribly difficult for you, and I sympathise hugely. However, I think you might need to take a "greatest good for the greatest number" approach. Your son was possibly badly affected by witnessing his dad's DV on you, and now he is a DV abuser in his turn. Will your younger children be affected by witnessing their brothers DV on you and on them, and also become abusers?

Some young men need to be away from their families for a bit before they can see what they are jeopardising by their behaviour. I hope you can find a solution that works for your family.

The idea that his brothers should have to hide in their rooms and take self defence classes in response to violence from an adult male (sorry a 17yo is an adult male in my book) is completely wild.

Absolutely, and what if he locks himself in a room with one of them in one of his violent or verbally agressive outbursts and they can't get away?

That's an awful thing to say.

Why would be leave a vulnerable teenager with a temper with a known violent abuser who's the cause of a lot of trauma?

He'd be in danger of being physically hurt.

Rather than issuing ultimatums - which hardly ever succeed, you could look at working with your DS to plan the next stage in his life, including finding somewhere for him to live independently.
What you DO need to focus on is your younger DC. Being exposed to their brother’s challenging behaviours is very risky. Speak to their school in order to look for support for them.

The point is, the younger children and OP are also living with daily risks of violence against them. Something has to give!