NHS weight loss programme being rolled out

[Davros]

What do people think of this? I don't get why they don't put more resources into rolling out the injections, people with diabetes are already eligible for them through the NHS afaik. They are proven to be effective and, with good supervision, there seems to be little risk. I heard a Prof on Radio4 who said there is a lot of data, evidence and experience showing they are safe, it surprised the interviewer who was expecting them to say they are experimental and fatties should work harder for it. I can't link to that, I heard it in passing and can't remember when or what programme it was

www.england.nhs.uk/2024/05/nhs-expands-soup-and-shake-diets-to-thousands-more-patients-with-type-2-diabetes-across-england/

This sounds like a very specific targeted program for people who meet the criteria. It’s not a general weight loss plan for anyone. It will no doubt be cheaper than the injections and remember any big health initiative has to be affordable. Type 2 diabetes is a massive issue, I presume this method has been proven to work, and if it’s affordable and achievable for the NHS then that’s why it will have been chosen.

It sounds miserable and unsustainable. But cheap.

I have done this diet privately a few years ago - a shake diet of 700 calories a day under medical supervision at a private clinic. I lost three stone in three months. I put all of it back on and more a year or so later. It doesn't help you with habits going forwards. I am now on the injections and eating proper food, in sensible portions with a variety of nutrition and am losing weight more slowly but in a way that feels more sustainable. So I have my reservations about this - it's a short term, temporary solution. It really, really works but doesn't last. This is of course true of many weight loss strategies.

I think rolling out this programme is great news and it will hopefully help a lot of people. Semaglutide is available to some type 2 diabetics but it is not a first line medication i.e. you would have tried other meds and they have failed. It is far better for the people who the diet works for to go into remission and need no medication that just give medication at first.

Do you mind me asking? Why would the injections help with better habits than the shakes? Genuine question, I guess my first thought would be prevention rather than cure and both fall into cure?

This will do fuck all.

I've lost 5 stone across 3 years, aiming to lose another 5.

We need education about nutrition. People need to know how to cook cheap, nutritious meals. UPFs need to be more expensive and fresh food needs to be cheaper.

Because it’s life long- if the patients cooperate.

Injections need lifelong investment from NHS.

This allows the initial investment from
NHS, which the patient them maintains without additional input.
I imagine follow up ‘ top up sessions’ may be issued to help people stay on track.

I’m saving the NHS significant amounts after a 12 week free course of slimming world.

I wonder why it’s only triggered by diabetes though- I’d have thought obesity or morbid obesity would be enough to trigger it, with the long term savings of less type 2, fewer joint and breathing issues etc.

It'd because there's a shortage of the weight lost injections, diabetics need them more than the average Joe. Diabetes is a miserable disease.

Most people would surely prefer 3 months of supervised malnutrition than injecting themselves with god knows what?

On Radio 4 this morning, they said 300 people out of c.900 had been successful with this. I seriously question sustainability of this drastic change to eating habits. I can't see it working for enough people for long enough

Or if we taught people how UPFs are literally addictive and mess with your hunger signals, and make you want more and more, and steered them towards healthy whole foods?

No point injecting or filling yourself with this crap.

@OneFrenchEgg because you learn what portion size and what types of foods you actually need to maintain/lose weight. You see that you actually don't need to snack. With shakes, it's all fake and you'll just start back onto your old diet.

I just read about that on BBC news. I thought that you need a hell of a lot of willpower to just have shakes for such a long period. I tried to do Exante a few years ago and I was climbing the walls with hunger.

I've done 1000 calories a day on Wegovy and lost 3 stone, but I've eaten plain yoghurt, nuts, chicken, fish and vegetables. And yet more nuts... I eat real food but smaller portions basically.

Disgraceful and irresponsible

these diets don’t work long term multiple studies show this.

the only way I can see it working/ being effective is if this is a springboard for weighloss prior to gastric surgery

The thing is you see a lot of people online eating the same crap just in smaller portions

I personally wouldn’t say UPFs are the demon here, but it’s a popular assumption. We DO educate people on diet, but that isn’t impacting so I would say this 800k a day is a good idea

@heavenisaplaceonearth they are demons. They're chemicals pretending to be foods.

There are multiple studies that show UPFs affect your hunger and fullness signals and are literally addictive.

It’s about the reeducation that comes after it, surely? You kick start the weight loss, go cold turkey on whatever your trigger foods are, and then reintroduce food with support to help you recognise portions and problem foods.

It does say they get 1-1 coaching to help them introduce proper food back into their diet so you’d hope they get the advice and support needed for future healthy eating behaviour. I agree though that UPFs are an issue, there’s a lot of stuff now that you don’t get the same “full up” message from UPF food. Which rings true with me. I can have a Big Mac meal and be hungry an hour later. 🤷‍♀️. So I do think there needs to be a focus on cooking. And yes upf food is cheaper. It’s cheaper to have a microwave meal (or a chippy dinner) than to cook something from scratch.

Thank you

So they are different things with different aims.

This is a diet that reverses type 2 diabetes. Proven in trials to do so. Very Low calorie Diets are short term (12 weeks max) and the sudden weight loss kind of mimics what happens in weight loss surgeries. But its cheaper and less invasive.

Weight loss injections support weight loss. But actually don't give you rapid weight loss. They have their place. But they are also expensive and have side effects.

They are two totally different things with two totally different target users.

Everything is a “chemical” and processing a food doesn’t automatically make it bad for you. The assumption that those who are overweight are chugging UPFs is blinkered. If I was going to point a finger it would be snacking and portion size, but I didn’t because that’s not what the thread is about.

@heavenisaplaceonearth

If you genuinely believe that things like protein bars are on the same level as a chicken breast then okay.

It's a scientific fact that UPFs are the leading cause of obesity.

There's no point in rolling out these initiatives when they do nothing to tackle the actual issues. 12 weeks of starvation followed by going back to the same old habits will do nothing

I have read that the limited calorie diet does reverse type 2 diabetes, as long as you are on it. But if you put the weight back on (and most people do), the diabetes comes back. It's not sustainable.

Actually from memory there is good evidence that these diets do work for the extremely obese.

No diet works long term. The best thing we could do for public health is to bring back rationing, which is essentially an enforced diet. It was considered when they removed rationing after WW2, capitalism prevailed though