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The truth about immigrants and housing shortage

187 replies

Strawbal · 05/08/2024 10:09

What is the truth? Is the country housing immigrants at the cost of our own housing crisis?

I'm bombarded with many differing viewpoints (on this and many issues) and I can’t sort the wheat from the chaff

OP posts:
DodoTired · 05/08/2024 11:13

EleMar · 05/08/2024 10:47

From a quick Google search I have found an article dated December 2023 - it's from the Spectator but it has links to the sources of the data, which I have not checked at this stage for reliability. The article says that in London, almost half of social housing is occupied by households that are headed by somebody who wasn’t born in Britain.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-mass-immigration-is-worsening-the-housing-crisis/

They could be occupied 50 years ago though, head of household arrived in 70s or even 60es, children and grandchildren born in the UK. The fact someone was born outside UK doesn’t make them non British citizen

Strawbal · 05/08/2024 11:16

Portakalkedi · 05/08/2024 11:11

I have wondered this many times over the years, why Muslims in particular would not choose to go there, as countries which share their religious and cultural viewpoints. However I don't imagine they would be welcome, and would probably not be allowed to enter at all, as with quite a lot of other countries. We are not supposed to talk about this though, particularly in front of all the whinging liberals who think we should open our borders (that's a joke - they are pretty much wide open already) to anyone who simply wishes to come here.

Jordan hosts 1.3m, and see my comment re Turkey

OP posts:
muddyford · 05/08/2024 11:16

VJBR · 05/08/2024 10:56

It is not just about building new homes though? It is school places, doctor appointments, translators in hospitals, ESL teachers in schools, child allowance, benefits etc. Rightly or wrongly people are blaming it on the amount of people in the UK. KS saying he is going to give amnesty to the thousands of asylum seekers already here has not helped.

Regardless of nationality or immigration status, we can't accommodate a million extra adults every two or three years. We wait longer for everything because there are more of us requiring everything. The roads have never been as busy, queues for pharmacy, doctor, in shops. The environmental cost, too, is horrendous, whatever we are told.

Octavia64 · 05/08/2024 11:16

The vast majority of refugees stay near the country they have left.

So Turkey (just over the border) has 3.7 million Syrian refugees.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RefugeesofftheSyrianncivilwarrinTurkey

The UK had 67,337 applications for asylum last year.

www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/top-10-facts-about-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/

gizatwirl · 05/08/2024 11:18

JamSandle · 05/08/2024 10:23

I never understood why countries like Dubai and Kuwait don't take refugees. They are wealthy enough.

Because they don't want their countries descending into chaos with rival groups and religions etc.

Ilovegoldies · 05/08/2024 11:18

In my local authority, asylum seekers are not all housed in social housing. They are in private rentals, the conditions of some are appalling.

DancefloorAcrobatics · 05/08/2024 11:19

Try and see the immigrants as consumers:
More consumers = growing economy = more money generated
More consumers = more housing needed = housing shortages = more money generated through higher prices and building new homes.

The basic principle of a market economy.

EatMoreFibre · 05/08/2024 11:19

EleMar · 05/08/2024 10:47

From a quick Google search I have found an article dated December 2023 - it's from the Spectator but it has links to the sources of the data, which I have not checked at this stage for reliability. The article says that in London, almost half of social housing is occupied by households that are headed by somebody who wasn’t born in Britain.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-mass-immigration-is-worsening-the-housing-crisis/

My dh wasn't born in the UK but is British with British parents, British grandparents, British great-grandparents and so on. All white if you are interested...

Many of the boys at his posh English boarding school were white British born abroad - the parents were diplomats, University professors, oil industry execs etc.

tetheredgoat · 05/08/2024 11:20

itsnotagameshow · 05/08/2024 10:42

There is a lot of misinformation out there based on some wanting to believe that asylum seekers ´take´ from British nationals. I know a Polish woman who told me categorically that in her (mainly rural) area refugees were being housed instantly in newly built council houses whereas ex soldiers were sleeping in the streets. When I asked where the council houses were, she couldn´t tell me (no record of new build council housing I could find) and she couldn´t tell me where the rough sleeping soldiers were to be found either. Still didn´t change her mind that she was right, despite zero evidence. Social media and certain sections of the press have a lot to answer for. Ironically she has just been given a council house herself, but apparently that is OK.

South Oxfordshire - Ukrainians - your Polish friend is correct.
I have no knowledge of ex soldiers sleeping in the streets though.

Dmsandfloatydress · 05/08/2024 11:20

The fact of the matter is we desperately need immigrants of all types to keep our economy stable in the UK. Our demographics are an inverse pyramid. Our population is elderly and the NHS is a victim of its own success. We don't have replacement rate of reproduction so we need to import workers to generate enough taxes to pay the pensions of the elderly. Also our divorce rate is high so families need two homes instead of one. Coupled with elderly living alone in family homes ( like my 99 year old granny) and bam, housing crisis. We haven't built enough homes for 30 years and right to buy destroyed social housing. We need to get used to the idea of living in flats because if we want to maintain the lifestyles we currently have we have no choice to import labour. A better idea would be to allow asylum seekers to work while they wait fir a decision and then they could enter the private rental market the minute they get their decision and would be able to provide for themselves so wouldn't take tax payers money while they wait. The vast majority are given refugee status anyway and these hotels are jam packed with doctors, lawyers and engineers!

suburburban · 05/08/2024 11:20

DancefloorAcrobatics · 05/08/2024 11:19

Try and see the immigrants as consumers:
More consumers = growing economy = more money generated
More consumers = more housing needed = housing shortages = more money generated through higher prices and building new homes.

The basic principle of a market economy.

It's not great for the environment though

tetheredgoat · 05/08/2024 11:21

EatMoreFibre · 05/08/2024 11:19

My dh wasn't born in the UK but is British with British parents, British grandparents, British great-grandparents and so on. All white if you are interested...

Many of the boys at his posh English boarding school were white British born abroad - the parents were diplomats, University professors, oil industry execs etc.

were they in social housing ?

Dreamingofgoldfinchlane · 05/08/2024 11:21

Why not do a freedom of information request to local councils to try and obtain the information you need - no one can answer your questions accurately on here.

Strawbal · 05/08/2024 11:22

Thanks to everyone who made thoughtful contributions. My take is that immigration hasn’t caused this, but it is adding to the pressure.

OP posts:
Izzy54321 · 05/08/2024 11:22

I can only speak from personal experience, I worked as a temp for local housing authority. Meeting people at properties to view/accept.
I worked there for 2 years, in those 2 years I never housed a British family in a 3/4/5 bedroom home. But I housed many British born in 2 bedroom homes. The truth is we need more homes being built not flats!!! Most people would accept that’s the truth of the matter. We haven’t replaced what has been sold using the right to buy. If we had no right to buy all councils would have so many more homes available. Look at London the mayor has has 9 billion to build new homes he has only built 130,000. Many of those are flats. Why isn’t there being more built with that 9 billion. So many reasons not just connected to immigration but in places like London that is a factor.

AdiLane · 05/08/2024 11:22

In my professional experience prior to the current Labour government, in my LA - housing worked like this…

Refugees assigned to an area under an agreed LA ‘quota’.

Refugees assigned to an area within the LA. Towns usually, rather than the isolation of rural houses.

LA made a conscious and considered decision to not assig LA housing. Very conscious of the antagonism in some local communities that this would cause.
Private rentals sought.

Home Office funding limits/allowance/cap per month did not match local private rents.

Local landlords appealed to, to rent within the Home Office cap.

Some landlords keen for altruistic purposes, some for security of the rental (regular payment and longer term contract - for instance Syrian refugees were allowed five years here, through the resettlement programme and then expected to return to Syria to support developments in their own country).
Some housing poor quality if landlords couldn't be found from the above. ( one was a huge Victorian house which was rented but had to house three families)

If no rental could be found, the families had to be considered elsewhere within the LA.

The difficulty with the Home Office cap on rents is that the cheaper areas of an LA receive a higher proportion of refugees than other areas putting some pressure on services.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 05/08/2024 11:23

EatMoreFibre · 05/08/2024 11:19

My dh wasn't born in the UK but is British with British parents, British grandparents, British great-grandparents and so on. All white if you are interested...

Many of the boys at his posh English boarding school were white British born abroad - the parents were diplomats, University professors, oil industry execs etc.

Your grandads posh school mates are hardly the type of the person to find themselves needing social housing now are they.

Freckles81 · 05/08/2024 11:23

Dmsandfloatydress · 05/08/2024 11:20

The fact of the matter is we desperately need immigrants of all types to keep our economy stable in the UK. Our demographics are an inverse pyramid. Our population is elderly and the NHS is a victim of its own success. We don't have replacement rate of reproduction so we need to import workers to generate enough taxes to pay the pensions of the elderly. Also our divorce rate is high so families need two homes instead of one. Coupled with elderly living alone in family homes ( like my 99 year old granny) and bam, housing crisis. We haven't built enough homes for 30 years and right to buy destroyed social housing. We need to get used to the idea of living in flats because if we want to maintain the lifestyles we currently have we have no choice to import labour. A better idea would be to allow asylum seekers to work while they wait fir a decision and then they could enter the private rental market the minute they get their decision and would be able to provide for themselves so wouldn't take tax payers money while they wait. The vast majority are given refugee status anyway and these hotels are jam packed with doctors, lawyers and engineers!

Couldn't agree more!!

suburburban · 05/08/2024 11:23

Carebearsonmybed · 05/08/2024 11:10

You are right it's become so polarised.

As with most political debates there is some truth in both sides but both sides spin the facts to suit their agendas.

1.2 million migrants entered the uk in 2023.
Did we build 1 million new homes (assuming most are single households)?
No.

But but but...

Since right to buy every government has failed to replace the sold off social housing stock. There would be a shortage even with zero immigration.

So the cohort of the population who's parents generation got a council house for life if they needed/wanted it are now stuck in private lets that take over 40% of wages in many cases facing council waiting lists of 20+ years.

If someone seeking asylum is finally approved as a refugee they have to move out of their asylum accommodation which is legally classed as 'unintentional homelessness'. anyone classed as unintentionally homeless goes to the top of the council waiting list. Therefore people do see refugees 'jumping' the housing list above the long term population who are in private lets.

But what is the alternative? Where do newly granted refugee status people live? They won't have been allowed to work whilst their asylum claim was being processed so they are unlikely to be able to rent privately or buy.

I don't know what happens in other countries that don't have social housing??

Where my DM lives they built a row of 4 bed social rented townhouses. Every one was allocated to refugees. It does sting. But the fault is with governments who didn't build more (and people who voted for these governments) not with the families themselves.

It's really not fair on the people already here who need social housing

You can see why there is resentment

Surely they should get the new social housing

SunOnTheRiver · 05/08/2024 11:24

Net immigration of 750k people per year. Even if they average 3 per dwelling, that is an extra 250k properties needed per year just to house the new arrivals. This is clearly unsustainable.

Newcex · 05/08/2024 11:25

This reply has been deleted

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Andthereitis · 05/08/2024 11:25

SoddingSoda · 05/08/2024 10:18

I’m but of a data/statistics nerd and looked into this around the time of the general election.

It was difficult to conclude as I could find data based upon ethnicity which doesn’t tell us much.

I was trying to fact check about foreigners apparently taking up all the council houses in our local area.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/housing/social-housing/social-housing-lettings/latest/#by-ethnicity-new-social-housing-lettings

Plenty of data.
The gov has loads of data.

Social housing lettings

In the year ending in March 2023, black households made up 7.0% of new social housing lettings and 4.0% of the overall population.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/housing/social-housing/social-housing-lettings/latest#by-ethnicity-new-social-housing-lettings

peachgreen · 05/08/2024 11:26

The main issue in my area is retirees still living in their large family homes. Which, of course, they have every right to, but it means that actual families are entirely priced out and therefore having to rent (or cram in to unsuitable housing). That pushes rent prices up which means more people needing social housing, of which there is just not enough.

I don't know what the solution is. My parents, for example, would be devastated to leave their home. But the fact remains that they have four bedrooms that they're not using, and just down the road my best friend is squeezing her three children into a two bedroom rental that they can barely afford.

WalkingThroughTreacle · 05/08/2024 11:26

The government is meant to account for things like immigration in their strategies, be that for housing, education, healthcare etc. Immigration is not the problem, piss-poor strategic planning and mismanagement are. Immigrants are just a convenient scapegoat for the previous government to try and blame their failings on and governmental failings are a convenient excuse for the anti-immigrant brigade to justify their hate.

runrabbitruns · 05/08/2024 11:27

Controversial but what difference does it make if an asylum seeker who doesn’t pay tax (because they’re not allowed to work) gets a council house, versus an English person who’s never worked a day in their life or paid any tax?

Is the only difference the colour of their skin and their passport? Is that what upsets people ?